Simon: My name is Simon Perry and I am here in Ryde on the Isle of Wight. Today is the 11th July 2024 and I’m here in connection with the Packs’ People Oral History Project and today I’m with …
Sue: Susan Fowler.
Simon: Thank you very much for inviting us into your home Susan.
Sue: That’s alright.
Simon: Can you tell me your year of birth and place of birth?
Sue: 1947, Pellhurst Road in Ryde.
Simon: And your mum and dad’s names and occupations.
Sue: My dad’s name was Thomas William Kepple Keith Williams and he was a Baker at Island Bakeries for all of his working life. My mum was Violet May Williams. She didn’t work but she was a Seamstress who worked from home. Did a lot of alterations, making wedding dresses and all sorts of things, and then I had a brother and a sister. My brother worked in Cowes, one of the Boat Builders and my sister was horse mad and she went to Racing Stables in Newmarket to work for a few years.
Simon: Wow!
Sue: But that’s about it.
Simon: How was growing up? What was it like sort of early years and school.
Sue: Yeah, it was all ok. As I say we lived on Romiley Road at the bottom of the hill, halfway down the hill and right from … I was tiny when they moved ‘cos they lived in a house in Pellhurst Road and then they got a brand-new Council House so …I had a brother and a sister.
Simon: And school was enjoyable?
1 minute 57 seconds
Sue: It was ok (laughs).
Simon: Where was school?
Sue: Bishop Lovett. I went there from the word go. No, it was ok, it was as school goes. I didn’t do any exams ‘cos I knew I was going to go to work at Pack’s. I’d sort of had an interview and they said, “Yes, if you want to start when you finish school” so …
Simon: What led to you having the interview then?
Sue: I can’t think back now how it all happened. I think it was something through school, like a what do you call it?
Simon: A Career …
Sue: A Careers thing, yeah, and there was another girl that came as well but she didn’t stay. I don’t know why, she just didn’t like it I suppose, but no, it was ok. Some of the people were a bit odd to start with (laughs) ‘cos there was quite a … I was the youngest when I first started but then somebody else came who was sort of close to my age rather than the older members of Staff, ‘cos they were a bit set in their ways (laughs). But we all get like that don’t we?
Simon: What do you mean, set in their ways? They did stuff in a particular order or …?
Sue: Yeah.
Simon: What sort of age were they then?
Sue: I suppose … there were a couple of late 20s, 30s, but the ladies in the Coats and the Gowns were more mature, put it like that (laughs). There’s not many of us left now though. I worked in Seaview for a while on and off. Mr Guy, whom was obviously the owner, he used to come, pick me up from home, take me to Seaview and then bring me home for my dinner and then take me back again and then bring me home again. Yeah, it was alright.
4 minutes 18 seconds
Simon: He was going home for his lunch as well I guess.
Sue: No, he lived in Seaview.
Simon: Did he?
Sue: There was no buses and there was not much in Seaview to do is there?
Simon: (laughs). Well in the scale of the Island, Seaview to Ryde is no small distance. So, I guess, yeah as you are saying they are finding it difficult to get people to get the bus out there to work, he had to help out.
Sue: Well yeah if they wanted you there, they you know … a couple of quite nice ladies you know, yeah. Came back into Ryde and then ‘cos we moved from the big one across to the other one.
Simon: Going back to the interview, do you remember what sort of … how that process worked? What were the questions they asked, or any …?
Sue: What when I started there?
Simon: The very first part, yeah.
Sue: It was very short. I didn’t have any … I didn’t do any exams or anything so that was not what I wanted to do, so I had no qualifications, but apart from that, no there was nothing really.
Simon: They were just sort of sussing out whether you’d fit in there I guess.
Sue: Yeah, I think that’s what it … I think I was on probation, used to call it didn’t you? (laughs). But I’d never got told to go away so I assume all was well (laughs).
Simon: And what age was that you were joining then?
Sue: 15, 16. As soon as I came out of school. I didn’t do any GCSEs or anything.
6 minutes
Simon: I can’t do the maths quickly. What year was that you joined do you think?
Sue: God, I don’t know. ’47 I was born …
Simon: ’47 , that’s ’52? Would that be right?
Sue: Yeah, early ‘50s.
Simon: No, ’62.
Sue: ’62.
Simon: Ok. So, that was the sort of the start of … the ‘60s was quite a revolutionary change really wasn’t it?
Sue: They were, yes, and ‘cos then they had … not only did they have the big Pack’s one on the corner, they then had a Miss Pack which was up where the Estate Agent’s is by the Bank, and then there was Jaeger down in Union Street next to where Russell and Bromley’s used to be and then there was Seaview and then then they had Morgan’s in Cowes and a Morgan’s in Southampton.
Simon: It’s funny that none of the shops were the names of the owners.
Sue. No. I can’t remember where Pack & Culliford came from.
Simon: Speaking to Jane yesterday, she was saying the one in Totland was ..
Sue: Was Cullifords wasn’t it?
Simon: Was Culliford and the original name of the one at the top of Union Street was Harry Pack. So that’s why it’s in the floor as well, so yeah that was the combination of the two of them coming together.
Sue: Yes, it’s weird isn’t it? See, I didn’t know that. You pick up snippets even after all this time. You sort of find out something new, yeah. I went to Mr and Mrs Moody’s funeral not that long ago. Been to them all.
8 minutes 3 seconds
Simon: That was Jame’s mum was it?
Sue: Janes mum, yeah. Her dad died quite a bit previous to that. She had a brother. And funny enough I was in the Co-Op the other day, actually I was having a cup of tea, and somebody I used to work with at Pack’s came and sat …
Simon: Oh really.
Sue: There are still a few of us around.
Simon: Was that a nice catch up?
Sue: Yeah, hadn’t seen her for years.
Simon: After the interview, they said, “Yeah great, you can join.” I guess what was the feeling then? Do you remember how you felt?
Sue: Nervous. ‘Cos it was a big shop, and you think … I didn’t know anybody. Actually, I knew one person, Hilary Steers, ‘cos she and my sister were into horses, so I knew her. Not very well, but I knew of her so there was somebody there that I knew.
Simon: So, she was slightly older was she?
Sue: Yes, she was.
Simon: And worked on the floor.
Sue: Yep. There was a Haberdashery Department.
Simon: Which one did you work in?
Sue: I worked in the big one on the corner of Union Street.
Simon: Yeah, in Union Street. Which Department was that?
Sue: Well, I was in the Knitwear on the second floor and the Underwear, which was all on the same floor, and then there was above that there was offices …
Simon: [Watch the mic, that’s the only thing.]
Sue: There was Offices up on the floor above that, and Stock Storerooms and what have we. But no, it was an experience.
10 minutes
Simon: A bit of trepidation the first …
Sue: Yes first off because it’s so totally different isn’t it from being at school and being with a lot of people your age to go to somewhere where I was the youngest one there.
Simon: And from what we’ve heard from people, it sort of feels like quite a grown-up place.
Sue: Yes, the only thing they did … well, there was a Children’s clothing part there at one stage and then they did a Bridal so we used to get some little ones in for Page Boys and Bridesmaids and what have we, so …
Simon: And did they offer you, ‘well you can go in this Department wherever’ or they just said, “Right, you’re off to Knitwear.”
Sue: Yeah, just off to Knitwear. That’s where the vacancy was, but as I said it was on the same floor as the Underwear and then there were the Work Rooms above.
Simon: The Knitwear was all year round was it?
Sue: Yeah. It was a big Department.
Simon: Quieter in the Summer.
Sue: Yes. But then we had sort of cotton tops and that sort of thing. I had the opportunity to go to Scotland to Hawick but it all fell through, which was a shame ‘cos I would have loved to have gone up there. It was Lyle and Scott and then the Peter Scott Knitwear.
Simon: Ok. A sort of Factory tour, that idea.
Sue: Yeah, but I never went (laughs). And then they had the Jaeger Shop in Union Street as well.
Simon: What was the day-to-day life like in the early days for you then, when you first joined?
Sue: When you first joined, you didn’t … you said, “Hello” to customers but you didn’t serve people. You brushed clothes and polished rails and that sort of thing for quite a little while and then you sort of … especially if somebody was off sick or something, you got more to do with the customer, the clients, which was much more fun than brushing clothes (laughs).
Simon: What was the brushing for then? To get the dust off them.
Sue: Yeah, because they just sat on the rails and they weren’t covered.
Simon: I can’t remember who told me that somebody, maybe this was in previous years, they used to put dust sheets over everything at night.
Sue: Oh yeah. We did that almost up to when I finished, when I left to have my son.
12 minutes 28 seconds
Simon: Ok. And they still needed dusting even after that, right.
Sue: Yeah, he’s 50 now which was really scary (laughs).
Simon: So, then early days is an occasional ‘Hello’ to customers. Certainly not selling them things.
Sue: No.
Simon: And then looking after the presentation and …
Sue: Yes.
Simon: Wat it somebody sat down and said, “Right, this is the way that we do it.”
Sue: No. Not really, it was all sort of on the go. You just sort of picked things up but it was very defined, the correct way to do things.
Simon: So, no one told you, you’re just supposed to pick it up and then …right, ok.
Sue: Yeah, there was no sort of sitting down instructions or anything. Taught how to use the till and that sort of thing.
Simon: What were the tills like. I guess mechanical in those days were they?
Sue: Yeah they were about that wide, that long …
Simon: Sort of 4 or 5 inches wide …
Sue: … and they had a bit that lifted up that you put the receipts in. It was like a double …
Simon: What like a carbon paper?
Sue: No, it wasn’t carbon. It was just two pieces of paper like that but the sheets were impregnated with the carbon, so one piece went one side under and then one went over the top of the till.
Simon: So you hand wrote it?
Sue: You hand wrote them all.
Simon: So, the till was just a sort of container that you stored stuff in.
14 minutes 3 seconds
Sue: Yeah.
Simon: Right.
Sue: As I say, it was about that long, about that wide, so the back lifted up and the front lifted up. The back was to fill the dockets up with and they were all joined like a toilet roll.
Simon: Ok.
Sue: Yeah flat, like a toilet …
Simon: What’s the docket then? That’s the receipt is it?
Sue: That’s the receipt, yeah.
Simon: I see, so the top copy for the customer …
Sue: The bottom, the carbon copy was ours (laughs).
Simon: Right. (laughs). And was it people paying in cash as there were no credit cards then I guess?
Sue: A lot of them had accounts.
Simon: Ok.
Sue: There was two types of accounts. One was Budget Account and one was a normal account. The Budget Account I think you paid a slight commission on it, so it … we didn’t have to work it out, it was all done.
Simon: So, what was the Budget part that people helping them budget to buy stuff?
Sue: It was an account that you paid so much monthly.
Simon: Oh, like a Christmas Club.
Sue: Yes.
Simon: Ok.
Sue: Yes, but in the shop (laughs).
Simon: Yeah, right. So, you paid money on account every month and then every now and again you could go in and spend that money.
Sue: No, you just paid money. You bought it and then paid so much afterwards.
Simon: Afterwards, like a hire purchase, right.
Sue: Yes, it was only certain … not everybody but we had quite a lot of wealthy people (laughs). A couple of famous ones.
Simon: Oh, like who?
Sue: I can’t remember her name now, an Opera singer. Yeah, we had one or two yeah, and then they had a shop in Cowes which was Morgan’s the clothing …
Simon: That was sort of sailing clothes and stuff is it?
Sue: Yeah, all sailing stuff, yeah.
Simon: So, when you … what was the point where they said, “Enough brushing, you’ve done the brushing, now you get elevated to the next position.” That was when someone junior came underneath you.
16 minutes 12 seconds
Sue: Yes, or somebody left, or whatever, you know?
Simon: And the next role was what? What was your …?
Sue: Well, just waiting for somebody to come in and buy stuff. Sometimes back then they’d spend £1000 some people.
Simon: How many?
Sue: £1000.
Simon: In those days.
Sue: In those days yeah, but that was the exception to the rule. There weren’t many of those around but they’d come from the Mainland and what have we.
Simon: Goodness.
Sue: Yeah, as I say it didn’t happen very often. We did get commission (laughs).
Simon: Did you?
Sue: Yeah, not a lot but you got more senior, you got commission (laughs).
Simon: Right. So, somebody more junior came in underneath you, then what extra responsibilities did you have then? You start doing the selling part.
Sue: Yeah. But you weren’t brushing clothes all the time (laughs).
Simon: And what’s the greeting that you had for when people arrived?
Sue: “Good afternoon, can we help or are you quite happy just to be looking?”
Simon: That’s good.
Sue: Then if they said, “Yes, we’re quite happy to be looking” then you’d just step back and say, “Well you know where I am if you want help.”
Simon: That’s good.
Sue: We used to curse and swear under your breath (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). What was that for?
Sue: Oh some of them could be really, really nasty.
Simon: Really?
Sue: Yeah. We used to get Sarah Brightman used to come in quite a lot because she used to live in Melville Street.
Simon: What was the nastiness then?
Sue: Oh they just think they are better than you. You’re just the minion.
Simon: Right. Goodness. But most of it was all jolly.
Sue: Oh yeah. A lot of it depended on the people you worked with. And then as I say, my son, he started doing the books after it changed.
18 minutes 22 seconds
Simon: What, into Cross Street? I’d love to talk more about Cross Street. We’ll come onto that for sure.
Sue: No he didn’t, no he wasn’t. I think he’d finished by the time we went to Cross Street. No, he did come to Cross Street. Not for long, it was sort of coming towards the end.
Simon: So, did you stay in Knitwear or did you move to a different Department?
Sue: I was Knitwear in the top of Union Street, and Shoes (laughs) but then it was a bit broader when we went …
Simon: Right. Less Departments, right.
Sue: Yes, it was all sort of … there was Underwear, Hat Millinery (laughs). A lovely lady that … her name was Mrs Atio. She was the Milliner, and she was in the Falklands Islands when it was all going, while it was going on. The people you meet and what you learn from them, not only about the shop but their experiences in life, you know you carry it with you for ever don’t you? People you meet, but some of them you don’t want to meet (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). So, why did she move from the Island to the Falklands, to another Island.
Sue: I don’t know, I don’t know. Well, no, she didn’t just disappear, we knew she was going, but yew, weird wasn’t it really?
20 minutes 6 seconds
Simon: Ok.
Sue: And it’s a bit more isolated than the Isle of Wight wasn’t it?
Simon: Yeah, a long way from everywhere.
Sue: Yeah.
Simon: So, how long were you in the Union Street branch before you moved to the …was it you had your kids and then …
Sue: I started work when I left school, in Union Street. I left to have my son who is now 50.
Simon: How much later was that when you left do you think?
Sue: Oh God, dunno. Can’t work that one out.
Simon: Ok.
Sue: And then as I said, my daughter she’s …what is she now then? 40 something. 42, 43? So, that’s it (laughs). Didn’t have any more (laughs). One was enough but we had one of each, so it was alright.
Simon: Ok. So, I guess it was … well what age were you when he born? Do you remember?
Sue: What John?
Simon: Yeah.
Sue: (Sighs).
Simon: Well where are we now? We’re ‘24, so it would have been ’75, something like that.
Sue: Yeah, something like that, yeah.
Simon: I’m trying to do the maths now. ’75, was it ’47, that’s 28. So that was … do another bit of maths, 13 years that you were at the Union Street branch then.
Sue: Yeah, it must have been round about that. I’ve never worked that one out (laughs). I never had cause to work that one out before, but no …
22 minutes 3 seconds
Simon: I mean you’ve got to love working in a place if you’re there 13 years haven’t you?
Sue: Yeah, it was … you did get some real wotsits but the majority of the people were ok. And then we had … oh I’ve got a piece of paper … it was a group of people came in and a lot of them went upstairs, and the others were walking round and somebody said, “They’re on ‘Coronation Street’” and I didn’t watch it so I hadn’t realised, but there was about 5 or 6 of them that were in ‘Coronation Street’ came and had a wander around and spoke to us all.
Simon: They were filming or on holiday?
Sue: I don’t know what they were actually doing here, but yeah I suppose they were in for about half an hour, wandering round, look around. We had a huge Shoe Department which was my possession (laughs) …
Simon: What, you were the Queen of the Shoes?
Sue: Shoes, yeah.
Simon: Did you pick the stock as well? What happened to that?
Sue: Mrs Barrow who was the mainstay in Ryde. Mr Guy was Seaview and Cowes, but Mrs Barrow and then her sister Mrs Moody, with Jane, they were the sort of the mainstays and got more say in there. I always got on alright with them. Some of the Staff didn’t gel but no, I was quite lucky really (laughs). We used to get a good discount on … if you wanted anything at cost plus VAT, when that came in.
Simon: Right. I mean that is pretty good isn’t it ‘cos I guess markup is about 100% generally isn’t it?
Sue: Yeah, theirs wasn’t quite as bad as that, but … ‘cos they had the Jaeger shop as well in Union Street.
24 minutes 19 seconds
Simon: Right. Did you … so when you were initially at the Union … not initially but 13 at the top of Union Street, did you … you mentioned Seaview that you went to that one. That was in the early days was it?
Sue: Yes. There was Jean Molyneaux and somebody else but somebody went off long-term sick and as I say Mr Guy used to come to my home, pick me up, take there. Sometimes bring me back into Ryde for lunch and then back again, and then bring me home at night.
Simon: Yeah, that’s great service.
Sue: Yeah, it was, but I suppose I was doing them a favour because they … I don’t know why they didn’t take on anybody else, which would have been the logical thing to do, which I think they did eventually after a while. I think it was through the winter and then when it got busier, they took somebody else on so I didn’t have to go backwards and forwards.
Simon: And how … what different sort of stock in Seaview was it?
Sue: Slightly different. Most things were the same but then they had a couple of Retailers that were different to what we had in Ryde because we didn’t want the sailing sort of stuff (coughs). It wasn’t a very big shop.
Simon: So, does that now sort of makes sense to me when you were talking about the sailing. Seaview, Cowes, those were being run by the same person makes sense doesn’t it?
Sue: It was quite interesting.
Simon: In terms of people not travelling from Seaview to Ryde to do their shopping, or I guess for the sailing stuff maybe Cowes, that is a bit further isn’t it? But it just seems amazing that something that is relatively, I mean in sort of worldwide terms, quite a short distance.
26 minutes 6 seconds
Sue: It is.
Simon: That there would be a shop in Seaview.
Sue: Yes.
Simon: But I guess there’s money there isn’t it?
Sue: Well yeah, especially through the summer, you know when it’s heaving with DFLs (laughs). As they used to known as.
Simon: Yeah, Down From London, yeah.
Sue: Oh and some of them were so stuck up. You could have put them on a wall and they’d stuck there (laughs). Yeah, there were one or two I could have mentioned but I won’t.
Simon: So, Seaview has always been a sort of summer place where people, have second homes and …still the same now.
Sue: It is, very much so (coughs) and much more expensive now. Well like everywhere isn’t it? Think what you … we bought a house on the corner of Queen’s Road, we owned half of it ‘cos it was in two flats, and we paid £52 a month for the mortgage. £52 and so many pence. Used to go along to the Town Hall in Ryde and pay it over a counter (laughs).
Simon: Yeah, very different times.
Sue: They certainly are. You wouldn’t get much for that now would you?
Simon: So, when you left to have your son, you were still looking after the Shoe Department then?
Sue: Yeah I was still in the Shoes. Well, we used to go all over the ground floor, and if they were short staffed upstairs, we’d go where we were needed, where we could be more useful. ‘Cos then there was the coffee shop as well (coughs).
Simon What a Coffee Shop in the Union Street one?
Sue: Yeah.
Simon: Was there? Oh, where was that? Was it a Staff one?
28 minutes
Sue: There was a small one there, yeah, it was up on the second floor.
Simon: Right. I mean The Coffee Bean I obviously know about in Cross Street, but I didn’t know about the Union Street one.
Sue: Yeah, there was one, a small one there.
Simon: Ok. Was that quite a social hangout place, or …?
Sue: There was always people in there, and I know somebody that I used to work with, we used to clean the coffee … the Staff had a coffee machine and we used to clean that out in our lunch hours, and then go swimming in our lunch hours as well.
Simon: Did you?
Sue: Yeah.
Simon: What down the road at the Sea Front?
Sue: No, at Ryde.
Simon: Ok.
Sue: In Ryde, yeah.
Simon: Wow, that’s a good break for lunch.
Sue: Yeah, we got an hour then, and then latterly it was cut to half and hour and we finished work earlier, which was quite good.
Simon: So, when you’re … that’s interesting … the other people that worked there, I mean I guess you got to know them pretty well after that long …
Sue: Yeah, a lot of them you …
Simon: It sort of feels, having chatted to a few people, like there was a … how people were …being in the shop was almost like a bit of theatre, that people presented themselves in a way that maybe they wouldn’t be in the normal day.
Sue: No, probably not.
Simon: That it was that that layer of formality …
Sue: Yeah, it was always that you always greeted them I suppose. A lot of them you knew but then you obviously you got different people, but you were expected to greet people as they came in and say, “Good morning, good afternoon, can we be of any assistance?” or “Can we help?” or something like that. We used to say, “The shoes are up the back, and the Coffee Shop and that is upstairs.”
30 minutes 11 seconds
Simon: What about when people, when you were sort of among each other in the Staff Room or whatever, was it that people were more natural with each other at that point?
Sue: Yeah, (clears throat) our coffee breaks were staggered and lunch breaks, so many went 12 ‘til 1, so many went 1 to 2 and (clears throat) and the coffee break was a quarter of an hour so, at least we had coffee on tap so (laughs) which was quite good, but no (laughs), the one thing I was going to say, when my husband started to … Mrs Barrow asked him to come and look at something in Pack’s, he was wandering round and he realised that the roof was not really attached to the building …
Simon: Oh my goodness.
Sue: … yes, so they had to do a bit of work on that.
Simon: Wow!
Sue: Yeah, he came and said to me, “Don’t know how to put this” he said, “but I’ve got to tell Mrs Barrow,” I think Mr Guy was still involved then, that was her brother, “that the roof … there we no joist hangers.”
Simon: Wow! So, did he then have to go and fix all of this?
Sue: Yeah, they fixed it all up, him and his brother and they had a partner so, he did quite a lot of work there as well, bits and pieces.
Simon: Yeah, what kind of stuff?
Sue: Well, he was a Plasterer, his brother was a Bricklayer, so whatever they could do …
32 minutes
Simon: [Oh, mind the mic.]
Sue: And they had Carpenters and that that they could ship in for anything that … they could do more or less every aspect of building with sub-contractors.
Simon: ‘Cos I had wondered about how much … ‘cos it looks like it wasn’t probably originally, originally way back when, wasn’t one space, one shop, so for them to … it was converted into a Department Store before it was Pack and Cullifords but then they must have thought, ‘oh ok, well it will be a better flow if we knock that wall down and …’ Was there work as large as that that went on?
Sue: Not when I was there, no. There was a funny back staircase that was like a spiral and you could get quite giddy and the final flight of stairs were concrete and it went down quite deep. There was a passageway and there were rooms off to one side, but on the right, there was like a hole and it was like a crawl way and you could go and get in it and go through and you could look up through the gratings on the outside as you came round the corner.
Simon: Wow! Right (laughs). Was that a coal hole do you think or something?
Sue: No, ventilation I imagine. I don’t really know and let light in because before there was electric I suppose.
Simon: Right. How often did you get to crawl through the hole under the pavement then?
Sue: It wasn’t under the pavement … well yes it was sort of under the pavement. Not that often.
Simon: It wasn’t a weekly thing then? (laughs).
Sue: No. There was storage, so it was a lot of the stuff for the windows, the Window Dressers were in and out more than we were, and the Stock Controller was down there but as I said the last flight of stairs was slabs, stone. Gosh, when you sit and think about how things were, and how they are now, gosh, you wouldn’t be allowed to do anything like that would you?
34 minutes 28 seconds
Simon: With the stone steps.
Sue: And then we had a Staff Room on the top floor, and we could open the window and get out and walk and you could see right across the water, yeah.
Simon: Oh wow, right. Oh, that’s good.
Sue: You couldn’t sit out there or anything. It wasn’t suitable for that but you could go out and look (laughs).
Simon: I mean after 13 years there, you must have got to know people who were regulars. How was that relationship?
Sue: Usually good. We used to have the Countess of Marlborough and her husband. He was a gentleman, he was lovely. He was a real typical gentleman.
Simon: You sort of looked out for stuff for them, you knew what they liked and, “I’ve got a pair of shoes that you might like here” or …
Sue: Yeah, and there was a … people that owned a big Hotel in Cowes and you used to rub your hands with glee if they came in ‘cos you … we did get commission. Not a lot but it all helped. When I started I got £2 15 shillings and sixpence.
Simon: Great (laughs).
Sue: Which was a lot of money from your first job ‘cos I only ever got pocket money if we were lucky, but … some days it was not good but most days it was alright and obviously it also depends on who you work with doesn’t it?
36 minutes 17 seconds
Simon: Right. I guess that’s part of the personalised service is where you would say for somebody, “I’ve got some great jumpers that will work for you” or that’s what …
Sue: Yeah, you had quite a few customers that you could guide them towards things (laughs). (coughs). I still see one or two of them now. There’s not many left but it’s strange how you don’t think about things, and then it’s like an eruption isn’t it? Once you start, it just carries on (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). Anything else about the Union Street shop that we should talk about do you think? Before we go on to the Cross Street one.
Sue: Just trying to think.
Simon: Any sort of unusual days that happened there or strange circumstances or funny stories?
Sue: I was trying to rack my brain you know for two or three days and I though no, there’s nothing pops … when you’ve gone it will all pop out (laughs). No, not that I can think of.
Simon: Ok. So, then 13 years you decided to leave. How was it when you said, “Oh ok, I’m going to have my son now.”
38 minutes
Sue: Yeah well, weird. Yeah, but I did go back so I suppose …
Simon: What was weird?
Sue: Just not getting up and going to work, going to the shop, and the people you miss and the customers. Some of them you don’t want to see but you know a lot of them were very pleasant but sometimes you got one that was a bit off (laughs). No, I must say I enjoyed it but I think I’d had enough , but I did go back didn’t I, so I had a break.
Simon: So, how many years were you not there then?
Sue: Um, I think when John went to school basically. I can’t think …
Simon: So that would be him being 6 or 7 do you think?
Sue: Yeah.
Simon: Ok. And then when you went back, you went back to Cross Street .
Sue: Yes ‘cos Pack, the Ryde shop … yeah went back to Cross Street.
Simon: Had they recently taken over that one?
Sue: Yeah, they hadn’t been there that long. Trouble is time goes by, you think …
Simon: Well, particularly when your kids are young.
Sue: Oh yes. It was a bit manic at times but it all helped the coffers that’s the thing isn’t it?
Simon: So, they’d taken over what was Woods and Wilkins, changed the windows on the ground floor.
Sue: Yes.
Simon: This is another thing I learnt yesterday about how they had not just as you look at it where the front doors were, but they had to the right-hand side the floors above the shop that was next door as well. I think that was the Bridal area and I can’t remember on the floors above that. And then Green Fingers, the Flower Shop that opened on the side as well. I mean that’s a hell of a chunk of shop.
40 minutes 16 seconds
Sue: It’s a big building. I don’t know that they had anything to do … I don’t think the Flower Shop was anything to do.
Simon: I think this is me just trying to remember now. This was Jane Moody. She was then mother maybe that opened that or grandmother I can’t remember.
Sue: Grandmother.
Simon: So, the new shop in Cross Street, new as it was then, did that feel quite modern because the design of it looked quite different to the Union Street one.
Sue: To the other site, yeah. ‘Cos there was lot of stairs in the top of Union Street obviously. There was only one flight in (clears throat) the other one.
Simon: Yeah, the Cross Street one.
Sue: Yeah on up to the Offices and the Store Room and that, but we had one of those tea machines (laughs) …
Simon: In the Staff area?
Sue: Yeah.
Simon: Ok. What was that, the big boiling …
Sue: Yeah, they put money in the slot.
Simon: Ok.
Sue: A friend of mine who used to work there, we used to swim in out lunch hours.
Simon: That was when you were in Cross Street.
Sue: In Cross Street. No, Union Street and I’m still friends with her now. This is on the Mainland, and there’s another lady that was … this one’s Sue and then there was June who lives on the Island in Ryde. They were both there when I went and they’d been there since they’d both left school so (laughs) she must be well into their 80s now.
42 minutes 12 seconds
Simon: So, they were … you did 13 years and then roughly another 7 after, they stayed the whole 20 years, right. I mean that’s a testament to how about the good employers isn’t it?
Sue: Yes.
Simon: That people stay around.
Sue: Yeah ‘cos you wouldn’t get it so much these days would you?
Simon: Right. Whether it be on the employer or the employee side.
Sue: Either. It’s a very fine line you draw to keep staff isn’t it?
Simon: Yeah. When you went to the Union Street one then, which floor were you on and which Department were you in?
Sue: In the Knitwear. Not the ground floor, the next one up. On the front was the Knitwear and then round above the Opticians and that, it was Underwear. And we watched the film, some of ‘That’ll be the day’ film in the Caribou.
Simon: What’s the Caribou?
Sue: The Caribou in Cross Street, it was the ‘in’ place to go for coffee for the youngsters and they filmed part of ‘That’ll be the day’ and we watched them doing it from out of the window in the Underwear Department.
Simon: That was opposite the Caribou was it?
Sue: No, that’s the top of Union Stret, and the Caribou was here in Cross Street. You know where the Sweet Shop is in Cross Street, it was there (laughs). Monique and Carlo ran it. A load of rubbish your brain remembers and then what you want to know about you don’t know. It was quite interesting actually ‘cos there was quite a lot of people, technicians and all sorts of things but not a lot got sold I don’t think (laughs) while they were there.
44 minutes 28 seconds
Simon: And other sort of showbiz highlights like that? Or any other highlights?
Sue: Not that I can remember. Probably after you’ve gone, I shall remember. We used to have customers who came from Cowes, and they did spend a lot of money and it was quite nice when you got the commission on bits (laughs).
Simon: So, where you were in first floor Knitwear, that was on the way through to The Coffee Bean at the back was it?
Sue: It was above … you know where the Opticians is?
Simon: On the right as you look at the building.
Sue: Yes, that was the Opticians and then it came right round and there was three floors there and that was the Underwear and that was up there. Trouble is it was a warren but as I say this particular … in the basement you had to go through this tunnel.
Simon: The basement in the Cross Street one?
Sue: No, not in Cross Street, in Union Street. No, there was nothing like that in Cross Street.
Simon: I was trying to visualise the …
Sue: There’s nothing hidden there that you might uncover (laughs). Well, there could be I suppose but no, I must say it was alright. I don’t know if I’d want to do it again (laughs). I like people but it’s like everything with people isn’t it? You get the good and the bad (laughs).
Simon: Right. So, how many years were you in Cross Street then?
46 minutes 25 seconds
Sue: ‘Cos I went back afterwards; I went back as well. I’m no good with dates. I’m useless.
Simon: I’m the same, don’t worry.
Sue: If it’s not on the calendar it doesn’t happen in my life (laughs). If I think about anything after you’ve gone I’ll write it down and ring you up.
Simon: Ok, no problem. Was the feeling of the Cross Street one any different to the feeling of the staff that worked there or just the general ambience?
Sue: Not really ‘cos most of us went, we just transferred literally. One or two I think [sound of Police siren] I hate that noise. There were one or two changes but not a huge amount considering the amount of people that worked there I suppose it was alright. I enjoyed it but …
Simon: Did you spend much time in The Coffee Bean?
Sue: What, when you worked?
Simon: Yeah.
Sue: When you worked there you could sit and have your lunch … we did have a Staff Room but if we wanted we could sit in The Coffee Bean. It was a bit more salubrious than the Staff Room. We had one of those tea machines.
Simon: A sort of dispenser.
Sue: Yes, dispenser, yeah. One of the girls I used to work with, we used to go and swim at lunchtime, and then go back and we used to clean the machine, the coffee thing as well.
48 minutes 15 seconds
Simon: Did you ever …the Fashion Shows have been something that people have spoken about as a sort of really quite a highlight and quite an event.
Sue: Yeah, there was quite …
Simon: Did you take part in those or were you a sort of a Dresser behind the scenes.
Sue: We dressed them (laughs).
Simon: How was that?
Sue: That was fraught at times (laughs). Yeah one person dressed, did one model (clears throat) unless there was a hiccup and then everybody went where they could go that would help out, but the thing was, we didn’t get paid for it either which was …(laughs)
Simon: Oh really.
Sue: No, we … I think you got something slipped in your wage packet occasionally but not that often. It would only happened once or twice a year.
Simon: And was that seen as quite a sort of a social moment.
Sue: Yeah, it was quite a social event. There was nibbles and wines I think for the customers, not for the staff (laughs).
Simon: Right, and they came down the staircase did they and then walked through the shop?
Sue: Yeah, they came down the front stairs and then round and up the back stairs to get back up to the top again.
Simon: Whereabouts was the Dressing Room then?
Sue: It was part of the Kitchen. It was all …
Simon: The Coffee Bean
Sue: … in the Underwear (coughs).
Simon: So, my understanding is that from the outside it all looked really calm and models are elegant and walking through, but behind it was ‘aaagh’.
50 minutes 7 seconds
Sue: Hat the wrong way round or something. There was somebody sort of checking as they went out to make sure that everything was right. If Mrs Barrow was around, she would do it, but usually she’d be off somewhere else and one of the girls would just adjust the hats and what have we and make sure they had their gloves. ‘Cos everything was done with gloves in those days.
Simon: Ok.
Sue: Yeah, white leather ones and …
Simon: Did you say your daughter modelled?
Sue: Yes.
Simon: For the fashion.
Sue: Yes.
Simon: What sort of age was she then?
Sue: Oh crikey. 20s, in her 20s, must have been.
Simon: That must have been quite a thrill for her to …
Sue: She was … very, not introverted, she was very shy I think. (clears throat). It took a lot. She did it and she carried on doing it but it took a lot. I didn’t have anything to do with persuading her ‘cos I thought if I do it, and it goes wrong, I shall get it in the neck (laughs) but I think Mrs Barrow actually talked her in to it eventually (clears throat).
Simon: How many years did she do it, or how many Shows did she do?
Sue: Oh crikey, well she was … was she doing her GCSE when she first … God, I don’t know (laughs). Dates mean nothing to me these days.
52 minutes 22 seconds
Simon: Ok. It must have been a thrill for her to dress up in the fancy clothes.
Sue: She liked the clothes, yes, she did like … well, no most of the clothes. Some of them she said, “I’m not wearing that” but she did. She was very, very shy.
Simon: Did it bring it out of her, bring herself out of it?
Sue: It helped, yeah. She’s an Accountant now, as is my son and my son-in-law.
Simon: Right, ‘cos when we were talking earlier, I think you said your son did the books, some of the books there. How did that work?
Sue: On Saturday, he used to come in on a Saturday and do a lot of the books.
Simon: So, that would be sort of taking the receipts, adding them into a book and then …
Sue: Writing it all down.
Simon: And they’re both in Accountancy, right.
Sue: Yeah. Sarah works as they live in Portchester, she works in … I don’t know where she works now but my son-in-law, he is. He comes from Stoke, and John is as well. John’s partner is not though, she’s not an Accountant.
Simon: Did they always love adding numbers up? What’s the reason that …?
Sue: Umm, I don’t know really how it all started but I know they were both good at Maths and I suppose it went on from there. I think John did a, was it a work experience? That’s how he got into … he works for A H Cross & Co in Newport, and he’s been there since he left school, and he’s 50.
Simon: He got the grounding at Packs.
54 minutes 13 seconds
Sue: At Pack’s yes, that’s where it started. As I say, both Maths was one of their best subjects.
Simon: Did you say your daughter also worked, as well as doing the modelling, she also worked at Pack’s on Saturdays?
Sue: Yes.
Simon: And how was that, having a daughter in at work? Was that …
Sue: Well, it was alright but you didn’t always have a lot to do with each other ‘cos sometimes she was upstairs in the Gowns, and I was always downstairs with the Shoes and the Accessories and the Knitwear and trousers and that sort of thing, but she did quite a bit upstairs with Mrs Barrow.
Simon: What was the building itself? Was that … you were saying less stairs than Union Street. Was there anything … it’s all quite open was it?
Sue: What Union Street?
Simon: Cross Street.
Sue: Cross Street. Cross Street is yeah, ‘cos you go in the door and the main staircase was in front of you as it is sort of now, and there was a cupboard under the stairs and then there was the Fitting Room. You’d sort of go round that way and that way it was up to the Shoe Department and then you could also get to the Coffee Shop, up the back stairs. And then there was another floor above that as well which was full of spiders (laughs).
Simon: This was the sort of Woods and Wilkins that hadn’t been touched.
Sue: Yes.
Simon: It wasn’t for the public.
Sue: No.
Simon: So, you didn’t want to go up there?
Sue: No, you went up but you weren’t particularly keen (laughs) so that’s when they found that the roof wasn’t attached.
Simon: Oh, it was the Union Street roof.
56 minutes 10 seconds
Sue: No, Cross Street roof.
Simon: Oh, I mistook that. I thought you meant the Union Street.
Sue: No, it was the Cross Street roof.
Simon: Ok.
Sue: Above the Florists, that aspect of it.
Simon: I mean that’s high up and it’s a windy bit I’d have thought.
Sue: It is, yeah. He came to me and he said, “We’ve got a problem.” I said, “Why, what’s that?” “Well,” he said, “we’ve just found that the roofs not really attached to the building.” I said, “Oh, just a minor detail.” Yeah, no joist hangers or anything there.
Simon: Amazing (laughs).
Sue: So, that was put right quite quickly I must admit (laughs). The trouble is you forget a lot of the things don’t you?
Simon: What about the … is there any detail that I should be asking about that I haven’t asked about do you think?
Sue: Not that I can think of, off the top of my head. We’ve covered most things haven’t we? Mrs Barrow used to go to London to do her buying but we used to see a bit of it (coughs). No, I can’t …
Simon: It seemed to be the way they bought was smarter, of one of each size but never really get two or more so people didn’t have the same outfit.
Sue: No, it was quite …the less expensive stuff there was more of, but the gowns and that sort of thing, the wedding dresses, they were just ones. I know the wedding dresses they could get different sizes in them, but not a lot. Apart from that I can’t think of …
58 minutes 30 seconds
Simon: Did you have anything to do with the wedding dress side?
Sue: Me?
Simon: Yeah.
Sue: Sometimes, yeah. Depends, somebody was on holiday, the staff on the shop floor, mostly we could do it all. Perhaps not so good as … but we could get away with it (laughs) and you had particular people that would always come to you (coughs).
Simon: Right. Customers would …
Sue: Yes, customers would make a bee line, which was quite nice ‘cos we used to get commission (laughs).
Simon: Well, it’s also nice to have that relationship with them, they trust you.
Sue: Yeah, and people now, I still see people now (coughs) that I got friendly with through Packs. Well, it’s a lifetime isn’t really when you think about it.
Simon: How was it dealing with … I mean these days, I don’t know how true this is but there’s this sort of ‘bridezilla’ tag put on people. I don’t even know if that’s a thing anymore, but what were people like? They must have been sort of excited to be getting married and …
Sue: Yes, I think more … I don’t think we ever had a bad one. Some of them could be stuck up and so stuck up they thought they were (laughs) better than everybody else, do you know what I mean? I never encompassed anybody lie that ‘cos I didn’t have a lot to do with the Bridal really, but if they were short staffed or somebody was ill or whatever, anybody could step in to most things ‘cos the Shoes were quite … I was the ‘Shoe Queen’ (laughs).
60 minutes 30 seconds
Simon: This is one thing that’s been said is that when sort of helping the Bride’s mother pick outfits that the shoes would be sometimes taken away and dyed.
Sue: Dyed, yeah.
Simon: Can you remember that?
Sue: Mrs Barrow would dye them. She dyed them all and gloves and anything that needed dying she’d do.
Simon: So, that would be a white shoe that then got dyed to match the dress or …
Sue: Yes, a lot of evening dresses too had shoes dyed to match.
Simon: And that was something that was included in the price or was that an extra or ..?
Sue: I think a bit was added on but probably not as much as it actually took. Actually, she was very clever, very, very clever. As I say it was Jill Moody as well, she was there but she was not quite so involved when I was involved with it.
Simon: What was your relationship with the owners like?
Sue: What with Mrs Barrow?
Simon: Yeah.
Sue: Yeah she was alright. If she liked you she liked you. If she didn’t, you knew about it (laughs) and I was lucky enough to be liked (coughs) so I used to make their tea and that and obviously that was in Union Street. Their sort of Office came out onto the Knitwear Department where I was based, so it was making the tea and what have we. It was alright, it paid your bills. As I say I was lucky enough to go back after I had kids and that so … I been still quite friendly with the people that I worked with. I still know quite a … they’re still around, which is not often these days. Obviously the older ones have gone but … one’s died recently. One of them had a nasty accident and broke both of her legs, but she’s mending now.
Simon: Well, if you think we’ve covered everything.
Sue: I can’t think of anything else. As I say, if I do think of anything I’ll give you a ring. I’ve got your number.
Simon: Ok, that’s been great, thank you. Lots of detail there. I know I’ve been sort of … seemed to be probably asking lots of detailed questions, but it’s just sort of trying to …
Sue: No, that’s alright. Trouble is you pull it out. You’ll get more out of me doing it like this than … but as I say, if I remember anything else that I can add to it I will be in touch.
Simon: Great. Well look, thank you very much for your time.
Sue: No it’s alright, no problems, thank you for yours.
Interview ends.
63 minutes 37 seconds
