Simon: My name is Simon Perry. I’m here for the Packs’ People Oral History Project and today is the 7th June, 2024, and we’re in Ryde and we’re with James Pellow today. James, can you tell me the year and place of your birth?
James: 1955, Ryde, so not very far away.
Simon: I said I was in Ryde, but I didn’t say I was in Ryde on the Isle of Wight, which of course we should say.
James: Oh no.
Simon: So, you were born in the town that we are in.
James: Yes, Pellhurst Road. It was a Nursing Home.
Simon: Ok. And how was … what about mum and dad? What were the …?
James: In what way?
Simon: Well which year were they born and what did they do?
James: Oh gosh. Well, my dad was born in 1912 and in fact went over on ‘D’ Day, so that’s rather applicable at the moment, and my mum, I think she was born in 1915 or ’18 can’t remember, but they’ve both been gone a long time. My mum’s been gone 40 years and my dad, 30.
Simon: And what did they do during the day?
James: My dad was a Gardener. They used to call it a Jobbing Gardener, which meant that he did gardens all over the place you know, and latterly before he retired, he worked at Polars, the Nursing Home, Residential Home in Newport, which is no more.
Simon: And then growing up, you grew up in Ryde.
James: Yes.
Simon: Which school did you go to?
James: I went first of all to Playstreet Lane Infants School and then I went to Swanmore Primary School, then to Bishop Lovett.
2 minutes 6 seconds
Simon: And how were those days? Are they enjoyable days?
James: Yes, I just drifted through them. I wasn’t career minded, I wasn’t … I just did it you know (laughs).
Simon: There was no option was there? (laughs).
James: No. I did alright I think but …
Simon: And then leaving school, what did you do after school?
James: Well, I first of all went to the Technical College in Newport, to do a Catering Course, which I did for a year, and then I was so good they recommended I go over to Highbury in Portsmouth and did another year there, and then that was the end of my catering career.
Simon: You decided to draw a line under it?
James: Yeah, I don’t know why but I did.
Simon: How was it going to Highbury? ‘Cos you had to cross the Solent to get there and it’s a fair hike from the boat isn’t it to Highbury?
James: Well yes, but I was young wasn’t I? (laughs).
Simon: Yeah, I guess that’s the sort of thing you just do in those days, yeah.
James: Didn’t think anything of it.
Simon: And what about mixing with those Mainlanders? What was that like? (laughs).
James: Can’t remember (laughs).
Simon: And then so that was Catering College and you figured that’s not for me.
James: Yeah.
Simon: And then where did you go?
James: Then I did a couple of years or so at Burton Tailoring in Newport. Montague Burton, ‘The Tailor of Taste’.
Simon: I’d forgotten it had tailoring at the end of it.
James: Yes.
Simon: Right.
James: And I’ve got coat hangers in my wardrobe from 50 years ago, because while I was there they decided I think to go to plastic coat hangers, so the wooden ones were discarded and I’ve got quite a few of them here.
4 minutes 7 seconds
Simon: I guess in those days plastic seemed terribly modern.
James: Probably yes.
Simon: Wooden seemed old fashioned.
James: No.
Simon: Yeah.
James: I do remember very little about Burton’s but I do remember the fuel shortage business in 1972 or 3, and so we only had electricity part of the day, not all day, so being the Junior, I had to fill up the hurricane lamps and paraffin lamps or whatever they were, and that’s how the customers saw themselves around.
Simon: Did that impact people’s shopping? I mean apart from … did they worry about only half seeing what they were buying?
James: Possibly, yes. I don’t know.
Simon: Ok.
James: I mean not being the Manager, I suppose I wasn’t that concerned about you know the trade, which I would have been if I’d been the Manager. I do remember only one other incident, and that was we had to use a tape measure of course to measure people’s waists and everything. It was quite formal in that way, and I remember this couple came, well a middle-aged couple, and I measured the man’s waist, and told him what it was, and the wife just looked at him and said, “Oh Fred” (laughs) and that was it (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). As in she was pleased or disappointed.
James: No disappointed I think (laughs).
Simon: Wow, ok. So that sort of got you into the early days of fashion I guess, or gentleman’s clothes?
James: Well, I suppose so. Yes, and then of course in I think ’75, Packs opened the Cross Street shop and because I lived in Ryde, it made sense to apply for that job, rather than going to Newport every day.
6 minutes 12 seconds
Simon: Right. And that was in which Department?
James: Well, first of all it was the Men’s Department, which was downstairs. Menswear Department I should say, and then after a few years, I suppose maybe because of my catering training, I transferred to the ‘Coffee Bean’ upstairs, the Coffee Shop.
Simon: Oh yeah well I’m looking forward to getting on to that because I understand that was quite a social hub.
James: It was yes, it certainly was.
Simon: I mean it made a natural transfer you going to the Menswear Department. That was specifically that it was called Menswear rather than just the Men’s Department.
James: Well I think so, yes. I suppose we called it the Men’s Department, but officially it was probably it was the Menswear, yes.
Simon: And what was the structure of the organisation like? Was it quite formal or quite hierarchical?
James: Oh I think it was, but not … I don’t think it was stuffy, probably because we weren’t … the Union Street shop, which was far older, probably was more formal. That was called the Lady’s Department and also originally the Children’s Department I think before it moved to Cross Street, but Cross Street, because it was a new shop in many ways, it was less historic in terms of you know, don’t include this, it’s rubbish (laughs) and I think also because the people I was working with. The Children’s Department was next door to me on the ground floor and they were delightful. I spent a lot of time talking to them. Mrs Pope was the Head of the Children’s Department and she was an absolute delight. So, that kind of prevented it being all sort of hushed and formal and …
8 minutes 34 seconds
Simon: Ok. Yeah I mean the people that worked there were people … was there a lot of people, ‘cos we’d heard previously of I think at the Union Street one, sometimes up to 70 people. That’s probably working across all of the shops.
James: Possibly yes.
Simon: Were a lot of people at the one in Cross Street?
James: Yes.
Simon: And that was part of the offering if you like, was people being looked after one to one.
James: Oh yes, definitely, yes. You had … it wasn’t like ‘Are You Being Served’ but that was the formal way. You know you approached the customers and asked them if you could help and all that kind of thing, you know. So, ‘Are You Being Served’ but you know it was that kind of thing.
Simon: Right. And we had spoken to somebody else who said when they first joined, they weren’t allowed to talk to customers because they were too junior. They sort of hadn’t learnt the approach.
James: Oh right. Yes.
Simon: Was the training that you got at Packs different to how things had happened at Burton?
James: No I don’t think so, but because I was really most of the time in the Men’s Department, I was on my own, therefore I had to talk to the customers didn’t I?
Simon: Yeah. right. And what was the particular way of approaching them then? Do you just sort of, “Hello” you know, not, “Hello mate, how’s it going?”
10 minutes 2 seconds
James: No, it certainly wasn’t that (laughs). Well, it was perhaps you’d call it formal now, I can’t remember. There wasn’t a particular approach like ‘Are you being served?’ it wasn’t that phrase, you know, it was a smile and a ‘Good Morning, can I help at all?’ that kind of thing, just a friendly way of doing it.
Simon: And you got to know … was it the same people coming back in regularly.
James: Do you know I cannot remember a single customer.
Simon: Really.
James: No.
Simon: Ok. I guess there’s so many people pass through isn’t there?
James: Yes. And because the Men’s Department was, as I say, on the ground floor, but you didn’t walk through the Men’s Department, only to the Ladies loo, and well to the Office. So that was for Staff obviously, so you didn’t get people walking through all the time to the next Department because there wasn’t a next Department.
Simon: Right.
James: You only got, as I say, the Office people going upstairs and ladies going to the loo. And I do remember one occasion which appealed to my sense of humour. This lady came in with her elderly mother, and in a very loud voice she said, “Come on mother, we’re going to the lavatory” …
Simon: (laughs).
James: … I thought that was very Packs (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). So, what was the type of clothes that were being stocked then? Was it formal suits or casual or …?
James: Well, suits certainly suits yes, and I suppose in a way it was more formal than it would be today, certainly, yes.
Simon: But was it a mixture of suits and sort of weekend wear?
James: Oh yes, yes.
Simon: Ok. And who would choose the stock?
12 minutes 4 seconds
James: Well, that would be Mr Guy, David Guy. He was the Buyer ‘cos that’s what we had in those days. We had Buyers, yes, so Mrs Pope for instance in the Children’s Department, she was the Buyer, and so the Reps would come round maybe twice a year, something like that to show the Buyers the next season’s range with the cloth swatches and that sort of thing which I wasn’t involved in of course, and then that would be ordered for the next season. And I do remember, I don’t know why, but Miss Keeling was the Head of the Ladies Coats Department and that was in Union Street, but for some reason she came over to my Department one day to meet the Rep for buying the next season’s range, and I don’t know why it was in my Department, so I kind of had an ear to listen to what was going on, and I … again this comes down to my sense of humour really, and I remember it to this day. She was buying fur coats, and he was showing her the swatches and she picked on up and she sniffed it and she said, “Yes” she said, “well it looks like skunk and it feels like skunk and (sniffs) oh by golly it is skunk.”
Simon: Wow.
James: And I thought that was so charming. She was an absolute delight you see and that’s what made it so good.
Simon: What was the reaction of the Rep?
James: I can’t remember, but he’d probably heard it before (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). Was it actually skunk?
James: No (laughs).
Simon: Ok. (laughs).
14 minutes 5 seconds
James: She was just making a joke (laughs).
Simon: One thing we’re thinking with this project is future generations not really understanding … not really the way that shopping was then and shopping is now being different.
James: Yeah.
Simon: How were the clothes laid out? Was everything on a hanger or …?
James: Yes, and certainly at Burton’s, ‘cos again I was the Junior, and every morning I had to go along the rails and make sure that all the hangers were level and you know the shoulders of the coats were all level along the rail and of course jumpers and shirts were folded neatly.
Simon: And there was a formula to the folding.
James: Oh yes, definitely.
Simon: Right. I mean I’ve got sort of memories of … I don’t know why this has come to mind of Benetton in I guess it must be in the ‘80s or the ‘90s, and the people who worked there seemed to be forever refolding the jumpers.
James: Yes.
Simon: Was there … I guess as soon as somebody comes in, picks a jumper up, it’s got to be re put down.
James: Yes.
Simon: So, when people walked in, the experience for them was leave them to browse for a little while, and then approach them? You sort of get to suss out what someone’s intentions are.
James: Again probably in the Lady’s Departments, the more formal they would be approached, but I can’t ever remember a formula, you know, I’d probably smile at them and say, “Hello.”
16 minutes 19 seconds
Simon: I guess it becomes so ingrained then why would you even think about it? It’s just natural. And one of the things that has been spoken about a lot is Women’s wedding dresses.
James: Oh yes.
Simon: Did you have a section for weddings?
James: We did yes. I think that was in the Union Street shop.
Simon: So, the Union Street shop was running in parallel with the Cross Street one.
James: Oh yes.
Simon: What was the reason they went for the Cross Street one then?
James: Just expanding I think.
Simon: And what about the … you mentioned some people who worked, you said the Children’s Department was next door to the Men’s one. Was that a noisy Department, the Children’s one or …
James: No, no.
Simon: Ok.
James: It was delightful you know.
Simon: And the people that worked in that Department, were lots of sort of fun and giggles.
James: Oh yes, as I say, if my Department was quiet I would be talking to them a lot, you know. And again another incident, I remember because obviously the Children’s Department was right by the main doors out onto Cross Street, and on one occasion I was talking to the staff there, and Mrs Pope, and it was just this way, the timing was perfect, Mrs Pope was over by the front doors, which probably were open because it was summer, and at the moment she was there, somebody walked past on the pavement and belched very loudly, and of course we instinctively looked across at Mrs Pope, and because she was such a delight, she just burst out laughing and said, “It wasn’t me” (laughs).
18 minutes 22 seconds
Simon: (laughs). These sort of fragments of memory, I’m constantly fascinated by …
James: Well yes, I’m sure, yes.
Simon: … how these things get remembered and retained and .. it’s fascinating isn’t it that that sort of two, three seconds.
James: Yes, absolutely, and it’s still there in my head today.
Simon: Yes, it’s fascinating. So, how long were you in the Men’s Department?
James: Do you know I’m not too sure. It wasn’t very long. I can’t honestly remember when I transferred.
Simon: And what you said, “can I do something else please?” or …
James: I think if I remember rightly, they closed the Men’s Department. I may be wrong on that but I think they did, and so somehow naturally transferred yeah.
Simon: The people that came in to shop in there, is there a sort of type of person that came in, or … I mean you say you can’t remember individual people but was there a …?
James: I suppose there was but I cannot remember to be honest.
Simon: Ok. And were the … I guess one thing that would be interesting, you mentioned Mr Guy being the Buyer for the … who else was involved with the organisation of the shop?
James: Well of course Mrs Barrow was very much involved, and Mrs Moody, Gillian Moody. They were the family and when I first arrived, a Mrs Guy senior, the mother, she was not probably so much involved because she was elderly, but she certainly was the figurehead.
20 minutes 18 seconds
Simon: And some people have said that she sort of struck fear into them.
James: Oh I think possibly yes.
Simon: Firm but fair was what we’ve heard.
James: Yes.
Simon: You didn’t have any direct dealings ‘cos you were the Men’s Department.
James: No, I suppose I didn’t. I don’t have any sort of nasty memories of them, you know sort of that scared me (laughs). I just enjoyed it.
Simon: Well, that seems to be, from the people we’ve spoken to so far, the firm but fair came out but also these people sort of fashioned my life.
James: Yes, yes.
Simon: In the way that they gave me an opportunity and it was you know, that set me on a path for evermore.
James: Yes, yes.
Simon: So, you then went to ‘Coffee Bean.’
James: Yes.
Simon: Or is it ‘The Coffee Bean’ or …
James: It was called ‘The Coffee Bean’ yes.
Simon: Which floor was that on?
James: That’s on the first floor in Cross Street, yes.
Simon: So, to get to it you went through the front entrance and up the stairs.
James: Well, you could go up the main stairs through the Shoe Department and then through to The Coffee Bean or there was a small staircase at the back which went out onto the back entrance by the car park there.
Simon: And the Shoe Department was men’s and women’s shoes?
James: No, just women’s.
Simon: Ok. So, the men of Ryde wore wonderful suits but no shoes (laughs).
James: I suppose so, yes (laughs). But there would have been other men’s shoe shops, yes.
22 minutes 4 seconds
Simon: Right. So, The Coffee Bean transfer, that was an exciting change for you?
James: It was, yes it certainly was. I mean it was a lot busier than the Men’s Department
Simon: Oh, ok. So, you were excited to move to The Coffee Bean.
James: Yes, very much so.
Simon: Had somebody left for you to take that position?
James: Can’t remember (laughs).
Simon: So, there you were, ta da, Coffee Bean.
James: Yeah.
Simon: And then what happened? What was the … did you reorganise things?
James: No, I did … I used to make flapjacks I think they were because we used to do the cooking there you know for the … it wasn’t that we didn’t do full meals or anything like that, but I do remember making these flapjacks which became quite successful (laughs).
Simon: I love that, it’s great isn’t it? That it becomes a thing.
James: Yes, and I was speaking to somebody only the other week who worked there as well, and she reminded me and it’s quite true because the coffee was in the Kona Coffee machines, and we used to go around the tables with the coffee jug in one hand and the milk in the other and pour them at the table. This friend remembered and obviously I remember this terrible phrase, you know going round the table and saying, “Half and half?” (laughs).
24 minutes 10 seconds
Simon: So, milk and coffee.
James: Yes, “Half and half?” It wasn’t quite like that but (laughs).
Simon: So, people got free refills did they?
James: No, no we served them at the table.
Simon: Ok.
James: They didn’t come up to the counter, only to specify a pastry, as Victoria Wood would say (laughs).
Simon: So how many tables were there … what do they call them? Covers or whatever the phrase is these days.
James: Do you know I’m not sure how many there were. It wasn’t huge, certainly wasn’t huge but …
Simon: And bustling.
James: Yes. A lot of regulars, so that was lovely.
Simon: So, it becomes a social hub of people sitting in The Coffee Bean.
James: Oh very much so.
Simon: I mean that must feel good to create a community like that.
James: Oh yes, yes. I do remember one, oh dear, the word elderly, customer. She was not one of the regulars but she used to come in now and again, and I remember she had baked beans on toast, and I imagine because she didn’t have very good teeth, when I cleared it away she’d sort of left all the shells from the beans on the plate.
Simon: Wow!
James: What a lovely memory.
Simon: (laughs). That’s quite some effort.
James: Yes (laughs).
Simon: How amazing. Is that sort of a knife and fork operation or a …?
James: I don’t know, I didn’t watch (laughs).
Simon: Yes, that’s some dedication to the cause (laughs).
James: And again talking about memories, I remember and I don’t know whether I was actually working … I don’t think I was working in The Coffee Bean at this time but I was up there for some reason, and it was when Virginia Wade won Wimbledon in 1977 and we were there … I think we’d listened to it on the radio, and I can see myself standing by the window in The Coffee Bean and we were talking about that.
26 minutes 31 seconds
Simon: Chatting about Virginia Wade. What was so memorable about her winning?
James: Well because … that was in 1977 and of course it was the Jubilee year and so the Queen presented her with the trophy, the plate, but also it was so rare for a British player to win Wimbledon. Nobody since Ann Jones in I think ’68 I think it was, I may be wrong.
Simon: So, that in a Jubilee year …
James: Oh yes, it was a great boost to British morale (laughs) and of course Virginia Wade had tried for so long, you know, to get there.
Simon: So you’d have the radio playing for a particular events.
James: No we didn’t but I think because, I can’t remember but it wasn’t always on, the radio wasn’t always on but it was …
Simon: It was such a thing of the public attention.
James: Yes, it was, yes.
Simon: I’m just trying to think about how … was it something that the community sort of naturally engendered itself or did you do things to make it convivial in there or make people …? Maybe it’s just a natural thing that you then when you’re running a place, people become attracted to it and you build customers that way.
28 minutes 13 seconds
James: Yeah I think so. Reputation I suppose is the word isn’t it?
Simon: And so it wasn’t … you didn’t do anything sort of deliberate, it was just you being you.
James: Yes, I think so, yeah.
Simon: Ok. And how long were you at The Coffee Bean for?
James: ‘Til I think it was 1988 and some customer, I don’t know who it was, nominated me for Shop Assistant of the Year from the Daily Mail in 1988 (laughs) so I have the badge …
Simon: Wow! Oh, you won.
James: No, I didn’t win, but I’ve got the badge as nominated.
Simon: Goodness!
James: And I never heard another thing, you know, but …
Simon: How lovely.
James: … yes, I was nominated.
Simon: Yeah that’s lovely.
James: And I’ve got a photograph of me, the very first Comic Relief year, which I forget when it was, but it was probably around about then, and I’ve got a picture of me in The Coffee Bean with the coffee jug in one hand and the milk in the other hand, and a red nose on, so that was as far as it went. All rather new then, Comic Relief.
Simon: Yeah, of course. Yeah, you were ready for your half and half (laughs).
James: Yeah ready (laughs) “Half and half?” (laughs). We didn’t say it like that (laughs).
Simon: So, the flapjacks were a boon, the ‘half and half’ was popular.
James: Yes I think it was oat and date, I think flapjacks. I don’t know what got me onto them, but …
Simon: Right, and what other food was served then?
30 minutes 2 seconds
James: Scones. There was one of the other girls who worked there was Elizabeth Taylor.
Simon: The Elizabeth Taylor?
James: No, no, I don’t think so. She never talked about Richard Burton (laughs) you know, so I don’t think it was, no. She would make the scones in the morning and …
Simon: So, it was tea and cakes rather than sandwiches or … what sort of food was served?
James: You know again I cannot remember whether we, as I said earlier, we didn’t do full meals. It was a very small kitchen, but certainly it was a Coffee Shop like you have Costa nowadays, you know. It was the forerunner of that really, it wasn’t a Café, Restaurant kind of thing.
Simon: It was none of your cappuccinos or any of that stuff, it was, as you said, poured cup of coffee.
James: I don’t think so, yes (laughs).
Simon: I guess tea, coffee, cakes. So, when the flapjacks inevitably ran out in the day, was their riots in the streets or …?
James: Oh I’m sure there were (laughs). Oh, I’m sure.
Simon: But disappointed customers, but they just got there earlier the next day. And were they daily visitors or …?
James: Yes, there were daily ones, yes.
Simon: I mean that’s an amazing … not a little social network in the way it’s used these days, but that .. and all of the people, did they build relationships between each other?
James: Yes, they must have done, yes.
Simon: So, it was a sort of chat shop.
James: Yes.
32 minutes 12 seconds
Simon: I think … it seems wonderful for you to have created that.
James: Well I didn’t create it exactly but it was lovely to be part of it certainly, yes.
Simon: I remember you saying in ’88 you left The Coffee Bean, when did you move to it?
James: Again I can’t quite remember the year but I might have a record of it somewhere but I cannot quite think when it was.
Simon: But it like 5 years or …
James: Something like that yeah.
Simon: Right, and what led you to leave?
James: Well, it closed of course.
Simon: The whole of the shop.
James: Yes. I’ve got the letter saying that.
Simon: What was the feeling when you learnt that it was going to close?
James: Obviously we were sad about it, but I can’t remember whether it was expected I don’t know, but it was sad, yeah.
Simon: And I guess that all of those people who had that as a social centre lose that as well. Did they transfer somewhere else in Ryde?
33 minutes 38 seconds
James: Possibly yes. And of course, we had … at Christmas we had the Father Christmas Department … not Department, Grotto, that’s the word, Grotto, and I think originally it was in the Union Street shop but then we had it in Cross Street. At the top of the main stairs, it was between one Department and the Shoe Department. This section was converted into a Father Christmas Grotto and that was Sue Arthur who I mentioned earlier. She was Head of the Window Dressing and all that. An incredible Designer she was, and she created this Grotto. And I think it was in 1988, I was Father Christmas (laughs) which was quite good, and apparently I understand the costume is still around, the Father Christmas costume, and I’ve got photographs of me in it, and I just remember sitting in there and the children would come in one by one and talk about what they wanted for Christmas, and I remember one little girl, even though I had this big white beard, she went out and I heard he say to her mother, “That’s my Sunday School Teacher” so that blew the gaff, didn’t it?
Simon: Wow! Was it you?
James: Yes (laughs).
Simon: Oh right, you were a Sunday School Teacher as well. Ok.
James: Yes, and I mean I think if I remember rightly I did recognise her obviously but I couldn’t say anything. And then one year, for some reason we had the Father Christmas Grotto in the Men’s Department, and so it wasn’t me but we had this chap playing Father Christmas, and I do remember I had to sort of look into the Grotto … if a child appeared to see Father Christmas, I’d have to sort of slyly look into the Grotto to make sure he wasn’t asleep ‘cos if it was quiet, he might drop off, or he might be sitting there with a mug of coffee, so I’d have to sort of alert him to the fact that there was somebody on the way.
36 minutes 23 seconds
Simon: That shatters the illusion.
James: Well it does, to see Father Christmas drinking a cup of coffee (laughs). Oh, and with beard pulled down of course so that it didn’t get covered in coffee. That does break the illusion.
Simon: So, what’s that like being Father Christmas?
James: I loved it, yes.
Simon: It’s a constant stream of children throughout the day.
James: Yes (laughs).
Simon: I guess all of them wanted the present of the year or … what was the ?
James: I can’t remember what they wanted but we had a little bran tub kind of thing and they would take a little gift from there, you know, when they went out.
Simon: Did it feel like an honour to be selected as a …?
James: I think so, yeah, it was fun, yeah.
Simon: I mean that’s a feeling that I’ve had is that the relationship between the people that worked there was pretty tight.
James: Yes, very much so.
Simon: How would you describe the … workforce sounds too formal; you know what I mean.
James: Yeah, well there was a camaraderie I suppose is the word, but we were all friends. There was the fact that one person was Head of the Department and the others were Juniors. There was that … no class system, I don’t mean that but obviously there were roles that you had to respect, but we were all good friends.
38 minutes 12 seconds
Simon: Was there the equivalent of Christmas parties where everyone got together?
James: Gosh, that’s a question isn’t it? I can’t remember to be honest (laughs).
Simon I was just thinking whether Santa had a role at those as well.
James: (laughs). No, I don’t think so (laughs).
Simon: For the people that came in where I sort of touched on this before, but the experience of shopping at that time, Can you describe that?
James: Do you know I can’t really.
Simon: ‘Cos you’re on the other side of it I guess.
James: Yeah, but it was also … it didn’t seem unusual or … that was how it was, everywhere. I suppose there were, yes, there were Boutiques and shops like that sort of thing but the vast number of clothing shops were fairly formal and that was just the way it was. Now of course, looking back, it probably looks a bit stuffy because it’s not like that anymore, but then it was. And of course, dare I say it, it was cash or cheque, you know, no cards (laughs).
Simon: Yes of course, that was a time when you bought something you had the money to buy it there and then.
James: Yes.
Simon: Yeah, that’s a massive difference isn’t it …?
James: It is.
40 minutes 11 seconds
Simon … with plastic or not even plastic anymore. Within theory, anyone can buy anything. I mean it used to be called ‘on the never never’ didn’t it?
James: Yes. And of course we did have customers who had accounts at Packs, and so their purchase would go on their account. I forget how they identified themselves as having an account, but the Office upstairs sorted all that out.
Simon: And that was just the convenience, it wasn’t that they needed the credit, it was just for convenience.
James: No, no, no. I think it was probably nice to know that they were not special but treated friends of Packs because they had an account, and that meant a lot, yeah.
Simon: I guess you have to be significantly regular.
James: Yes, I guess so, yes.
Simon: The people that you met there, have you continued the relationship with them?
James: Only one or two. It’s so long ago (laughs). A lot of them have gone of course but one or two, yeah. See I’ve been … I’ve had this flat for 30 years but I’ve only been back 2 years. Before that I was in London for 20 years so I lost touch with a lot of people, you know.
Simon: That was after The Coffee Bean.
James: Yes.
42 minutes 7 seconds
Simon: So, when the doors closed …
James: Well no, I didn’t go to London straight after The Coffee Bean, but no the last 20 years I’ve been in London.
Simon: What was the shift to London for?
James: I went to Drama School. That was in 2002, just for a year, so that was kind of … and various addresses in London from then on.
Simon: Working on Theatre.
James: Yeah. Not necessarily in London but other places. I do the summer down in Devon in Sidmouth.
Simon: Oh that continues?
James: Yeah.
Simon: Ok.
James: The Sidmouth Rep, which is weekly Rep. 12 weeks and this is my 20th year this summer and it is the last Theatre in the country that does weekly Rep. There are a few that do fortnightly Rep or the occasional Rep but we do 12 plays in 12 weeks.
Simon: A dear friend of ours used to do the same, and him describing them I’m sure you’ve got the same experience. It sound unbelievably intense.
James: Well, it certainly was to begin with because 2004 was my first year, and in those days you were employed for the whole 12 weeks, and you were either in a part on the stage or backstage doing lights or props or something and so during the day, you would be rehearsing next week’s play, and then in the evening you’d be performing this week’s play etc you know. So, it could be quite intense, yes.
Simon: You’ve got to hold two plays in your head the whole time.
James: Yes, and you were only given your next part the week before, so you had the weekend to learn it.
44 minutes 15 seconds
Simon: That sounds crazy.
James: Well it kind of was, but it got people sort of in to that quick learning process. You know you didn’t have the chance to spend a few days mulling it over, you got on with it and you just turned up at the first rehearsal knowing your lines, or most of them, you know. And that was it. I suppose it was a little difficult if during the day you were rehearsing a farce, and then in the evening you were performing a thriller, you know your brain might get a bit (laughs) muddled up. Nowadays, for the last 10 years or so, you get employed for the plays you’re in, so you’re not there the whole 12 weeks, and you get the casting ahead of time, so I already know the ones I’m doing in August and September.
Simon: Why did that change?
James: I think it was just the way things go. A lot of Actors found that committing themselves to 12 weeks in the West Country away from London, they might miss an opportunity to do something else, you know. Also, they employ lighting people and scenery and props people you know, separate to the Actors, so you concentrate on the acting.
Simon: Oh I see, so you don’t have to do the backstage stuff too.
James: Well, you might have to help, yeah, ‘cos you’re part of a team obviously.
Simon: It seems, well maybe not a big change. Maybe The Coffee Bean was Theatre.
James: Oh yes! Oh definitely, oh yes (laughs).
Simon: Were you doing amateur dramatics or anything like that?
46 minutes 26 seconds
James: I was, yes. Yes, that’s me up there on the wall.
Simon: Ok. So, when you weren’t at Packs, you were doing other theatrical stuff on the Island.
James: Yes, I started doing amateur dramatics, yeah, and then in the ‘90s, I got involved at Shanklin Theatre with summer season doing various things.
Simon: And what was the life on Shanklin Theatre like?
James: Love it. Love it. I still go back now. I still do things there now. Last Christmas I was in the Pantomime, and I love it. It’s a lovely Theatre, and I mean all credit to them, they run it so well and have so many good shows and names there you know. It’s really good. It’s buzzing.
Simon: Yeah, the schedule is full isn’t it? Was there anything that we haven’t spoken about you think we should have spoken about to do with Packs?
James: To do with Packs (laughs). I don’t think so.
Simon: Ok.
James: Again this is another Rep anecdote. As I said, Mrs Pope was the Buyer for the Children’s Department and I do remember on one occasion … as I said before, she was a delight, such a sense of humour, and this Rep came to her and showed her next year’s range, next season’s range, and this Rep was quite pompous I think and he was telling her how he had his own boat, and as quick as a flash, Mrs Pope said, “Oh yes” she said, “They’re two a penny out here” and that appealed to me (laughs). That was him put in his place (laughs).
Simon: She sounds like a real character.
James: She certainly was, she was an absolute delight to work alongside, you know.
Simon: Is she still around?
James: No, sadly not, no.
Simon: I guess it’s those …yeah that’s naturalistic humour isn’t it?
James: Yes.
Simon: Reactive. Maybe these days she’d be doing standup.
James: Oh very possibly (laughs) I don’t know.
Simon: Yes, that’s good. Anything else you think we should chat about?
James: I can’t think of anything else to be honest.
Simon: Ok. Thank you very much for your time.
Interview ends.
49 minutes 18 seconds
