Simon: My name is Simon Perry and I am here for the Packs’ People Oral History Project and here today is in Ryde and we’re with …
Lisa: Lisa
Simon: Hello Lisa. Thanks for letting us chat to you today.
Lisa: Thank you for having me.
Simon: The way we normally start this is to talk about the date which is the 3rd July.
Lisa: Yes, I believe so, yes the 3rd of July.
Simon: 2024. Can you tell us your year of birth and place of birth?
Lisa: Yes, I was born in 1980, in London, and I grew up in Sydenham, living in Sydenham until about the age of 7 and then I moved to the Isle of Wight, and I remember my grandmother coming to collect me from school and having to drag me down the stairs because I did not want to leave. And I loved my school. I went to a Girl’s School, Sydenham High School it was called, and then yeah, we moved to the Island which I was very against (laughs). I was not onboard with the idea and yeah and then I grew up here. At my first opportunity I moved back to London when I was 18 (laughs). I found it quite alienating living on the Island, but I’ve since returned as an adult and with my own daughter in tow and have had a completely different experience. So yeah.
Simon: That’s good to hear. So, what about your mum and dad? What do you know the year they were born and …?
1 minute 40 seconds
Lisa: Yes, my dad was born in 1947 and my mum was born I think in 1954, and they met in London. They were both Teachers and oh I remember as part of my training for Theatre School, they asked us as a project, asked our parents their love story. I couldn’t believe I hadn’t asked it already. I was a bit ashamed actually that I didn’t know the story already, and it was fascinating. I loved hearing it as an adult what they went through. So, they were both Teachers in the same school, and I think my dad was new and his friend said, “Oh you’re going to love this Teacher”, Ann, my mum, and he was right. When mum walked into the Staff Room, my dad lit up (laughs) immediately started to pursue her and he’d asked her if she wanted to meet up she’d agreed. She was quite impressed by him. He had a lovely red sports car which he later told me was … he said he used to always see old men driving nice cars and he’d decided like why should it be wasted on the old (laughs) so he maxed out … I don’t know if he had a credit card or savings or whatever but he bought this crazy expensive car. He thought, ‘no, I want to live now, not later’ and so he had this impressive red sports car and he pulled up outside school waiting for her and she stood him up.
Simon: Oh my goodness.
Lisa: She stood him up, and I said to my mum, “Why did you do that?” and she said, “Oh I just didn’t want him thinking that it was all going to be too easy” (laughs) which I loved. I’ve never heard my mum speak like that before, like what her dating game is, but it’s very good. So, that spurred him on even more and I think he managed to catch her another time leaving school and he said, “What are you doing now?” and she said, “Oh I’m going shopping for a bikini” (laughs) and he said, “Can I come?” and she was like “Sure” and they went round Selfridges shopping for a bikini (laughs). The rest is history. I said, “Did you buy a bikini mum?” She said, “No, we didn’t even look at them” (laughs). She was just flirting with him (laughs).
Simon: That’s a great story.
Lisa: Cute isn’t it? I just need to break ‘cos I can hear something beeping.
Simon: Ok.
Lisa: I think it’s my dishwasher that I need to actually physically turn off.
Simon: Ok.
4 minutes 4 seconds
Lisa: Something is doing a cheeky beep. I’ll turn that off and I’ll turn that off … there we go, should be no more naughty beeps.
Simon: So, after such an amazing start to the relationship, what brought them to the Isle of Wight after that?
Lisa: My dad sails. He had a yacht in Brighton and was travelling from London to Brighton to use it, and I think increasingly they got a bit bored with travelling that far to use the boat and then one time they went to I think Beaulieu and then to the Island, to Bembridge Harbour and they fell in love with the Island, and they fell in love with Bembridge so …and they also realised that for the same money in London, they could have so much more in Bembridge and that was the end of that. They moved us, much to my dismay (laughs).
Simon: At what age were you again?
Lisa: 7, yeah and I just loved London. I loved the buzz of London, the hubbub, the shops, the excitement. I remember my dad taking me down the High Street and it being so busy and me just looking up and just being overwhelmed by all the sounds and sights and I just found it thrilling, I loved it. So yeah, I did struggle (laughs).
Simon: So, Bembridge a little bit of a contrast.
Lisa: Completely, and also being mixed race, you know we’re an ethnic minority even more so on the Isle of Wight, so I did not enjoy sticking out like a sore thumb and everybody asking me where am I from. That was quite alienating.
Simon: Did that go on long?
5 minutes 53 seconds
Lisa: Yes, throughout my whole childhood, which I think now, as an adult, and because a lot has changed I think in the time that I’ve grown up, you know things have really changed but I think then I just … especially when you are growing up, I think developmentally psychology wise as a child, there’s a development stage you go through where you want to be the same as everybody else and being constantly reminded that I was different, I found quite damaging, and I think some of the questions were really quite innocent. People were just curious and maybe some people excited, you know, which I see now that then I didn’t see it that way, and I found it annoying and I really didn’t like being singled out all the time. It is what it is. Whereas now I enjoy it. I enjoy being different and I enjoy being an “exotic” or whatever, and people find that exciting. “Oh, I love your hair” and you know that’s really nice, I love it and I love it that I get a great tan in the summer and everything. But yeah, I think then it was just a bit much as a child.
Simon: So, the school that you went to when you went to Bembridge was a local school was it?
Lisa: Yeah, I went to Bembridge C of E which is now a housing development (laughs) and then I went to Bembridge Forelands Middle School which is now the Primary School, and I went to Sandown High School which is now Sandown Bay Academy.
Simon: How was that the shift to the big school?
Lisa: I mean it was very daunting because when I went there I think at the age of 12, I was young for the year as well, so I think I was … like all the children walking around they looked like adults. The Sixth Formers looked like adults and I’d never had to navigate a school before finding North Block, South Block, you know, having all these large vast places to find, but I chose Sandown High School because it had a really good Drama Department and headed up by Pru Lee, and that’s why I went there ‘cos I wanted to be an Actress and thinks like that, and I had a great time performing and learning the Arts. They also had an excellent Art Department, so I enjoyed Art. It wasn’t my passion but I did enjoy it very much, and I actually ended up going to St Martins Art College for a bit after … thanks to my Art Department teachers. It was Mr Brown and Mr Endacott and was it Mrs Gilmore or Miss Gilmore I think was her name. But yeah, I’ve got nothing bad to say about Sandown. It was great.
8 minutes 45 seconds
Simon: I mean that’s very forward looking for someone so young to think, I want to do Drama and therefore let’s find the school with the best Drama Department.
Lisa: Yes, I think I was definitely headstrong (laughs) and knew what I wanted yeah. Yeah I think I always knew that I wanted to perform, and I had lots of confidence then but I did lose the confidence once I got to like teenage years ‘cos obviously it’s difficult. I know we were chatting earlier about this and …
Simon: The questions you put to yourself.
Lisa: Yeah, that’s right.
Simon: That maybe no one else is asking.
Lisa: I don’t know about that. I think a lot of it came from you know, a bit of bullying which everyone goes through, and I think I let it get to me a bit too much. But that’s fine, it’s all part of my journey (laughs).
Simon: Made you the person you are.
Lisa: Absolutely, yeah.
Simon: So then you then came to leave school and then … what’s the connection with Packs then?
9 minutes 50 seconds
Lisa: So I also wanted to do modelling as well as acting and dancing, I wanted to do modelling and of gosh, I used to buy all the fashion magazines and pore through them and dream of … yeah I remember the shops, you couldn’t get the fashion on the Island at the time and I remember the very first New Look that came to Newport and everyone was talking about it, and I hated it (laughs). I remember thinking I will not be wearing that. I like it now but I think at the time it wasn’t what I was looking for, and yeah used to buy Vogue and everything, and so I remember I went to … my sister was at Upper Chine School, and she was in a Fashion Show and I asked to be in the Fashion Show with her, which I luckily managed to get in, even though I wasn’t at the school, and the designer of the hats, the Milliner, was Joseph Kohn, and he was lovely, and I remember kind of muffling my way in on this Fashion Show and saying to him, “You know I really want to do modelling” and I remember him kind of looking at me and he said, “There’s a thing about models” he said, “You’re either beautiful and you’re beautiful on camera and you’re beautiful in person and they like you for that, or you’re a pig, but you’re a pig in lipstick but the camera loves you.” He said, “You might be a pig in person” (laughs). I hope he doesn’t mind me quoting him like this (laughs) “but the camera loves you and you’re a model for that reason” kind of thing, and I remember thinking oh goodness, I wonder which one he thinks I am (laughs). And I put on one of his huge hats which had this big rim on it and I put it on my head and I could see the look on his face and he was like, “Oh hats, suit you” and I was like ‘oh, thank God for that, and so he got me modelling his big statement hats kind of thing, and so I got a taste for it at the Fashion Show. And then I thought, oh what can I do on the Island? ‘Cos there are no Agency and I thought well, Elizabeth Pack has a Fashion Show so let me contact her and see if I can model for her and she already had an Agent that she used on the Mainland and models that would travel over to perform for her, but she said, “Well come in and we’ll have a chat” so I went in and met her and got me to try on some dresses and she said, “Yes, ok, you can join in” so there was little old me with these grown women who were so sweet and so welcoming. I was so lucky that they weren’t you know hostile towards me, and I mean I was in awe of them. They were all so beautiful and you know, knew what they were doing and I learnt from them really. You know, you’re projecting the confidence and the slow walking and the turns and everything and I just absolutely loved it. It was so much fun.
12 minutes 57 seconds
Simon: This is another example of you just like well what’s the solution to this? I know, Elizabeth Pack, ok. So, her initial reaction when you turned up is sort of, “Hello Miss Pack” or …
Lisa: I think I telephoned her first , but luckily she was open to the idea which is so nice. She didn’t know me from Adam.
Simon: And what was her reaction like when you called?
Lisa: She was very proper and to be honest, she didn’t seem friendly, so I just persisted (laughs) with politeness and persistence and she said, “Well yes, you can come in” and I thought ok. So, then I went in and I was all smiles and she was still very proper and you know, not a lot of smiling and very straightforward and to the point, and she had a way of looking at you that would just pin you to the ground. Yeah, you didn’t mess about with her. She was very strict, but she was, you know she was obviously very kind because she let a newbie, someone who’s at school who says they want to try modelling, she let me in, and that was such a lovely thing to do.
14 minutes 17 seconds
Simon: What age was that?
Lisa: I think I was about 17.
Simon: Ok. And you were saying that there was a range … I didn’t know about this models coming from the Mainland, a sort of Agency over there.
Lisa: Yeah, and they were all in their I think 20s. I think mid-20s to late 20s and had children and you know they were these fully grown women and I was so … yeah, they were so beautiful I was in awe if all of them. They were just so friendly and really sweet to me. I think because they saw me as the baby, they looked after me. They were like, “Oh bless, look.” I remember one of them saying, she was being so flattering, she said I had a look of what was it? Elizabeth Taylor about me. I was like ‘come on now’ (laughs) ‘let’s be real’ but it was so sweet of her to say that though. I just thought, ‘oh, they’re really nice.’ I was obviously petrified and just putting on a brave face and I think they could see that so they really put me at ease.
Simon: So, she said, “Yeah, come along and have a …” Was there a sort of a trial or …?
Lisa: Yes she just got me to try on some dresses I think. She made me walk up and down but not a staircase or anything ‘cos I mean staircases are daunting, but yeah, she did just get me to walk up and down. I think she just wanted to see that I didn’t slouch and I could fit the clothes. But yeah, I loved it and I remember at the end, she’s ever so sweet, she offered me a dress as a thank you for being in the Show.
Simon: Wow! Right.
Lisa: And I thought oh no, I couldn’t you know. I was just happy to be in it thank you. Yeah, she was lovely, and I remember I was in the local paper with it was so sweet. You know the County Press, ‘cos they came along to these things, to these events and took pictures so it was really nice.
16 minutes 8 seconds
Simon: So, that would have been ’87, ’88 then I guess.
Lisa: Yeah.
Simon: Ok.
Lisa: I mean I’ve probably still got the paper. I should check which year it was, but yeah, I think I was around 16, 17 at the time, yeah.
Simon: So, after her initial trial of well, let’s put some dresses on and walk up and down, was she then just like, “Well ok you’re in the Show.”
Lisa: Yeah.
Simon: Ok. And how far off was the next Show?
Lisa: Oh it was imminent. I think I’d got good timing for that somehow. I’d managed to contact her at the right time, and I think Joseph Kohn may have also maybe suggested that I contact her if I … I’ve got a vague recollection of him saying, “You know she does Fashion Shows, maybe get in touch with her.” He kind of took me under his wing as well, he was very sweet and gosh, he introduced me to … I can’t remember the House now, the Fashion House now, it was a big one in London and I mean huge. It was like a … I can’t remember now but I remember being so scared and it was to be a fit model.
Simon: What is a fit model?
Lisa: A fit model will go into the showroom of the Sales Team of the Designer and wear the clothes for the Buyers, so it would be people like Selfridges, Harvey Nichols, or Brown’s Boutique and everything. All their Buyers would have a private show and the model would do that like in-house or it would be to do fittings on for the Design Team in-house as well. When the garments have got to a certain stage where it’s ready to just be tweaked, then they need a model of the right proportions that fit their design perfectly, to then stand there and have adjustments done on the body so there would be two roles to that job. And I remember speaking to the lady that Joseph had connected me with, and she was asking me, you know, “Can you do this, can you do that, are you going to be comfortable?” you walking in front of these people and all of this and I think I was 18 or 17, I was just overwhelmed and she said, “Right, send me your model card and your details and I’ll come back to you” and I never sent it ‘cos I was just too afraid.
18 minutes 34 seconds
Simon: Wow.
Lisa: Such a shame, such a missed opportunity ‘cos that would have been incredible. Yeah, I wish I could remember which Designer it was now.
Simon: So that was … I mean that was some time after Elizabeth Pack’s one was it?
Lisa: Yes.
Simon: But the Pack’s one being the first step on that journey.
Lisa: Yes. And I think she obviously gave me … that experience being a positive one, then gave me the courage to push on more doors, knock on more doors after that.
Simon: So, can we dive into the detail of … ‘cos there’s been so many people talking about these Elizabeth Pack Fashion Shows, and they were such a thing.
Lisa: They were. I mean there was a real hubbub about them, and all the Staff would get … you could see they were really excited and nervous and everything had to be perfect and you know, Elizabeth Pack would walk in the room and everyone would kind of scuttle or stand up straight or you know, and everything had to be just so. And if she pointed anything out, you could see almost sweat, you know going, “I’ll get it sorted, don’t worry” (laughs) and I remember meeting her sister as well. I think they were both kind of similar in that sense. I have a feeling her sister may have been even more stern, but yeah I remember the Tea Room as well. People just … lots of clattering and making sure everything was perfect and then the place would be packed full and you’d have to pick you way through the crowd doing your walk down the stairs, around … like there was a little pathway that you had which was a loop, and then you’d go back up I think through a Kitchen or something to get back to the top to change again. But yeah, it was absolutely rammed every time, it was so full.
20 minutes 32 seconds
Simon: And they gave over the whole shop to it.
Lisa: Yes, the whole shop.
Simon: Right. I remember Shademakers did a Fashion … did you go to the [inaudible] they made?
Lisa: It clashed with my brother’s 40th birthday otherwise I was meant to go to that. I saw it on Facebook, the videos. It looked great.
Simon: It sounds like it’s the same route they recreated it. People came down the stairs, there’s a raised stage that took you through to the back.
Lisa: Yes, I saw it. Yeah, I saw Callum doing his amazing strutting. He looked fabulous.
Simon: So, that was what it was like, it was a real recreation.
Lisa: It was, it was like that and I remember some bits were quite narrow. You had to try not to trip on handbags and things of people sat there.
Simon: You sort of went down to floor level rather than a raised stage.
Lisa: We did also have a raised stage though. We did have a raised stage somewhere so I’m not sure where that was. It’s really hard to remember exactly. Gosh, I feel like I should look for that article if I’ve got one ‘cos that will have … I mean the County Press would come and take pictures of the Show. It was a kind of a thing on the Calendar wasn’t it? It was like an event.
Simon: It appears to be yeah. People looking forward to it and I mean from what you were saying, the sort of buzz and anticipation of the Staff there. How are we going to best do this? I guess you turned up on the … so she said, “Yes, you can be part of it.” Did you have fittings or anything before that or …?
Lisa: Well I think that’s what my visit was for, to try things on, and once she saw that I was a standard whatever size I was at the time, she just picked the outfits out based on that.
22 minutes 23 seconds
Simon: Did they alter them, ‘cos I know they had a big Alteration Department?
Lisa: No, nothing was altered. I remember she would have all the outfits you know on the hanger, all labelled up with the cellophane over it and everything, and each one of us had a Dresser. I mean you had to ‘cos the changes were quick.
Simon: Oh right.
Lisa: Yeah, it wasn’t to be fancy, it was for efficiency and so you know you have to be not self-conscious because [oh sorry, I’m touching the mic] you have to be not self-conscious because you know you’re getting quite naked in a room of people and you know you can’t really worry about it, you’ve just got to get on with it and undress and dress again. I think we used to wear like nude colour knickers and maybe a strapless bra, but sometimes you had to take the bra off to make it fit properly, and there was a section at the end where we would wear ball gowns and sometimes … and then at the very end one of the models always came out in her bridal gear. So, often for the gowns you just had to lose the bra, so you just had to, you know, forget your inhibitions and you know you’re trying to step into a hooped thing and leaning on the Dresser who’s bent over you and you know, it’s not glamourous at all (laughs) and you’re hot and you’re sweaty and you’re panicked trying to get your shoes on, the straps done up, and then you come up (sighs) like it’s all rush, rush, rush, go, go, go. And then when you get to the walkway bit then you compose yourself and no one knows what a big fuss you’ve just had (laughs).
24 minutes 5 seconds
Simon: I love that contrast, from pandemonium to cool, calm and collected.
Lisa: That’s it. And slowly walk in when really you know you’ve just been like panting (laughs).
Simon: So, with the slow walking and just the general walking bit, how do you know how to walk like that? You were saying that people were helpful in giving pointers but had you studied videos or … in those days there wasn’t a You Tube was there?
Lisa: No, there wasn’t You Tube.
Simon: I guess there was the ‘Clothes Show’ on BBC 2 or whatever it used to be.
Lisa: I watched that religiously, I did. I forgot about that. I think also walking changed. The fashion of it changed but the way it was done at Elizabeth Pack was that old fashioned walking which was like the kind of 1920s style, which is just very slow, very poised and considered because I know the cat walk in London was very much a kind of strut, and high knees, like lifting your knees high to walk and sticking your hips forward. There was a different walk, but the Elizabeth Pack walk was still hips forward, shoulders back but slow and deliberate and very composed. Yeah, and you had to make sure that you spent enough time so that all the women got to see the whole outfit at the same … you know you had to make an effort to turn a lot because they’re all sat on all angles, you can’t just aim yourself front, you had to stand to the side and pose, hold the handbag, show the handbag, put it down, hold it by your side and then turn around and then show the other side so they could see everything, and then you made sure that you took your jacket off at the end and held it over the arm so that they could see the whole outfit properly. And then you’d go back again like … there was lots of back and forth so that they could see everything.
26 minutes 2 seconds
Simon: Was there, right?
Lisa: Yeah because that’s how they’re shopping, you know, they’re seeing the whole thing. Yeah it was really nice, like with the shoes and the handbag, everything. And then you’d go up and quick, quick, quick, quick (laughs).
Simon: (laughs). Yeah.
Lisa: Oh, try not to snag your tights in the process (laughs). Yeah it was really a lot of fun.
Simon: I’m just thinking about someone walking in the street like that normally, they’d probably look quite mad wouldn’t they? (laughs).
Lisa: Yeah, really silly.
Simon: But that’s not the point of it. The point is you are selling the product.
Lisa: Yes, and that’s the whole thing. It’s a performance, it’s a Show, and people have come there, they want to be inspired and they want to aspire to what you’re wearing, so you’ve got to make it look expensive and make it look good, yeah.
Simon: And that’s stuff that you knew or had studied or was passed on to you or ? How does all of this …?
Lisa: I was born to do it darling (laughs). I’m a terrible drama queen. I love all that stuff, are you kidding? (laughs). I mean I’ve got pictures of me as of like a 4-year-old with pearls and a hat on and (laughs). I love posing and strutting and showing off. I love all (laughs).
Simon: So, that must have been an amazing feeling to live it.
Lisa: Oh yeah. I was very grateful.
Simon: I mean you got a sample at the hat thing.
Lisa: Yes I did. I was very grateful for the opportunity.
Simon: This is the pinnacle so far.
Lisa: Yeah, completely.
Simon: So, you must have been buzzing.
Lisa: Yes. Yeah, I didn’t want paying, I just loved it. It was so much fun, yeah it was thrilling. And then of course from that the Agency, she took my details and then gave me more work throughout the years on the Mainland, so I was modelling with the Mainland girls after that.
28 minutes 7 seconds
Simon: With the same bunch.
Lisa: Yeah, so she was a stepping stone for me. To then I would always do the Bridal Show in Portsmouth. They had one every year, so I would always model for that with her and I think there were some other ones that we used to do in like in shops or in houses sometimes. You know, ladies want to have a private Show and they get their friends together and canapes and …
Simon: Someone was telling us that that used to happen here as well.
Lisa: Oh really.
Simon: That people would host the Elizabeth Pack Fashion Shows.
Simon Probably quite a few decades beforehand, but I guess it was seen as a … I mean from the point of view of the shop, amazing. You know, people, probably had quite a lot of money hosting you, and then ‘oh right, let’s be introducing people with more audience and yeah, seems like a great idea commercially.’
Lisa: Yes.
Simon: And then yeah, just went from there really.
Lisa: I remember you did not want to be late going out with your outfit on.
Simon: So, how long were you given to change?
Lisa: Not long.
Simon: I mean it probably seems like 2 or 3 seconds when you’re doing it.
Lisa: It’s really not long. I don’t know. I feel like I want to say half a minute, like it’s not long. It’s really not long and she is at the like the opening of the entrance way. She’s not at the front. She used to go out to the front and address everybody, but then she’s go to the backstage.
Simon: For last minute checks.
Lisa: No, she was the Gate Keeper, letting the models go. She’d be like, “Go” so we’d be lined up and she’d really shout at you if you were going to go at the wrong … “No, not now, idiot” and you feel like, “Oh God, I’m sorry.” I think that was why I was so astonished when she gave me a dress to say thank you ‘cos I was sure I’d done a terrible job because she was just barking orders at me and I’m sure I got it wrong ‘cos when I get nervous, I just make all sorts of mistakes and you know, stumble and all sorts but yeah, she would be holding you back and then, “Ok, go!” you know.
30 minutes 24 seconds
Simon: So, it’s interesting how cool, calm and collected image generally. I mean it’s a high-pressure situation I guess, so even the most stable person would buckle in a way.
Lisa: Well, she didn’t buckle, she was just putting you in your place, you know (laughs). If you’re faffing, sort yourself out, get here and go! She was very much like you know, cracking the whip.
Simon: How many models were there at the time?
Lisa: Ooh, I want to say about 5 of us, something like that, that’s what I want to say.
Simon: And were you given particular outfits? You were given the sort of younger outfits were you?
Lisa: No, I was wearing the same as everyone else.
Simon: Ok.
Lisa: Yeah, I know I remember when I was later on modelling in London for some older women’s clothes, and I saw my picture in Lady’s Realm in Ryde (laughs) because they were obviously stocking that brand of clothing.
Simon: Ok, so it was some publicity shots.
Lisa: Yeah, their promotional material. I was in their Catalogue for the brand of clothing which they’d obviously used one of the images to put in their window to advertise …(laughs).
Simon: What was that like?
Lisa: (laughs). So weird. Nowadays I think it’s a lot better that people use older models if it’s for older clothes ‘cos what older woman wants to see a 19-year-old wearing her clothes to advertise to her? You know surely you’d want to see someone your own age looking fabulous in your clothes, not you know, a girl. I think I would find that difficult so I’m glad that times have changed and you’ve got all these gorgeous older women now modelling as well. That’s how it should be really I think.
32 minutes 20 seconds
Simon: Was there … there’s been talk of Miss Pack being around the corner which was the sort of … I think started as a sort of a young fashion … I’m not sure which decade. I sort of had the feeling that was maybe late ‘60s or ‘70s it started.
Lisa: Oh, how fab.
Simon: And it was the sort of young fashion … we’re talking to Christine who was a Window Dresser, well she dressed all the windows, but she was talking … it’s the one you know where Fox’s Estate Agent is?
Lisa: Yes.
Simon: It’s opposite that, that was … there’s an alleyway through to the Co-Op carpark. It was on the right-hand side of that I think. That was not there in your time then?
Lisa: No, I don’t remember a Miss Pack. That’s such a great concept isn’t it?
Simon: I guess it was like … was there a shop called Chelsea Girl or that sort of …
Lisa: Yes I believe so.
Simon: Something along those lines, the younger fashion.
Lisa: Yeah, that’s a really nice idea. Oh, no I didn’t know about that. It very well may have been there but I don’t remember it. Just remember Elizabeth Pack.
Simon: What was the general feeling or the reaction to … when people heard that you were going to be doing the modelling for it? What did your friends say?
Lisa: I don’t know if I told my friends.
Simon: You thought it would blow their minds?
Lisa: No, you just don’t want any jealousy do you, ‘cos children can be unkind can’t they?
Simon: Ok.
Lisa: I think I would have kept that to myself. I don’t think I …
Simon: And then it pops up in the County Press (laughs).
Lisa: Yes, probably it’s not the best approach is it really (laughs).
34 minutes 12 seconds
Simon: The plan is ruined.
Lisa: Yeah, I think they just would have gone, “Oh yeah, typical Lisa, that sounds like you, like doing something like that” kind of thing.
Simon: What was the reaction once the paper came out then?
Lisa: I don’t know. I think it was all very underplayed to be honest. I don’t think it was …
Simon: ‘Oh yes, the County Press, yeah I’m sure I was in it’ … (laughs).
Lisa: No, it’s just an Island paper isn’t it? Like you know you get …
Simon: But a major thing here.
Lisa: Yeah, I know. I just didn’t … I think my mum and dad were obviously kept the edition and things but …
Simon: What, 2 or 3 copies.
Lisa: Yeah, exactly, but it’s just within the family that you celebrate it. I didn’t really do any more than that. I didn’t talk about it to other people really.
Simon: I just wondered whether you were like, (whispers) “Oh there’s that girl, there’s that girl that was in the paper.”
Lisa: Oh I see. No, none of that happened, no, not at all.
Simon: And what about for your parents? How did they react to you doing it?
Lisa: I genuinely don’t remember. I was very much just whatever I wanted to do, I just went off and did it, and didn’t really think about what anyone else thought about it. Just did it, ‘cos that was what I wanted and that was that. I didn’t really … I don’t know, I didn’t really involve them in things I guess unless I … yeah, I just got on with it (laughs).
Simon: Did you get to keep the dress that you mentioned? You initially refused them.
35 minutes 56 seconds
Lisa: I didn’t have the nerve to take it. I absolutely loved it. I remember it to this day. It was a black silky, I want to say silk. It was either silk or satin, black, slinky, cut on the bias gown, full length gown. It was stunning and I wished that I had the nerve to say yes but I didn’t. I was too scared and just said, “On no” and then I got worried afterwards. I remember afterwards feeling really bad, but I hope she didn’t think I didn’t like it. It wasn’t that I didn’t like it, it was that I was just so blown away by the offer that I had to refuse, but I would have loved the dress. Yeah, so that’s always been imprinted in my memory that you could have had that incredible dress by Elizabeth Pack and you turned it down (laughs).
Simon: Well, one thing you were mentioning was the sort of flow of what people wore when they were doing the Fashion Show. What did it start off with? I know you said it ended up in the Ball Gown …
Lisa: Gosh, we did swimwear as well. I don’t think we did underwear but I think we did swimwear with the coverups and the beach bag and the glasses and we had you know kind of the twin sets outfits, the cardigans and the pencil skirt with the blouse and the bag and the gloves and the shoes. I don’t know if we started with swimwear, I want to say that we did, which is quite … thinking about it it’s quite overwhelming …
Simon: From zero to one hundred.
Lisa: Yeah, from a modelling perspective you’re going in naked like from the get-go but I do feel that we started in swimwear, and then moved on to the twin sets and then the evening wear and then the Bridal girl came out at the end. I can’t remember if there were many hats. I want to say there were, yeah, but I can’t remember exactly.
38 minutes 5 seconds
Simon: I love the idea of it being … I guess that’s if you’re trying to sell stuff, having it as a set of things. Here’s a bag and here’s a hat and here’s the gloves and … it makes sense to show off everything you’ve got there.
Lisa: Yeah, ‘cos I worked for Russell and Bromley in the years to come on their shop floor and learnt a lot about upselling and how important it is to do the complete look, and we were not allowed to bring out a pair of shoes without the matching handbag.
Simon: Oh wow.
Lisa: We got reprimanded by the Managers if we were ever seen leaving the Stock Room without an alternative two pairs of shoes that had a very similar look to the ones that they’d asked for and the matching handbag, to the point where customers would say to me, “I just want the shoes, don’t bring me the handbag” and I’d be like, “Yeah, yeah, sure, sure” and I’d come out with a handbag (laughs) and just look at them going like ‘you don’t understand it’s not my jobs worth to not bring out the handbag. I was like, “We’ll just put the handbag here.”
Simon: They were well versed in the experience.
Lisa: They were. They used to get so cross (laughs). But that was the thing, the shoes, the handbag, it was a set. And also, I think some people, they don’t feel confident putting outfits together and I think it’s easier to just shop the entire look and just buy the whole thing. You know it all goes together and that’s your outfit done. I think perhaps like the old-fashioned way of shopping was like that, that you didn’t have to be creative yourself, you just bought the look, whereas nowadays it’s completely different isn’t it?
Simon: I’ve heard, possible yeah. So, how many Shows did you do with Elizabeth Pack?
39 minutes 56 seconds
Lisa: I think I only did about two with her to be fair because I then went to London and did all my studying and things, so yeah, it wasn’t many I think.
Simon: So, do you remember the differences between the two Shows? Were you the second one you were like, “It’s ok, I’m a professional, I’ve been through this before.”
Lisa: I’m sure I sweated less. No, it was still as nerve racking but obviously I’d done it before, I knew what to expect, so that edge was taken off but it was still you know, fast paced and me trying to do the right thing and hoping it was all going to go ok ‘cos you know the dressing and things, I wasn’t accustomed to doing that quickly and unzipping and everything. I mean if you’ve got a good Dresser, they’ve got it prepped for you and ready so that you can just step into it but if you’ve got someone who’s not experienced … I mean I think the people, that were dressing us were either Staff from the shop or maybe like a mum friend or something, so if they didn’t know what they were doing, it could be high stakes that you were not ready in time.
Simon: Yeah, and the flow of outfits is important I guess that they’ve decided the order in advance.
Lisa: Yes, and I don’t know if they were given printed material. I think it was Elizabeth Pack’s sister who used to be on the microphone talking everything through because when you came out, there was somebody talking. I think it was her sister saying, “And here we are modelling this jacket by so and so and the skirt and the shoes are by so and so and also available in this colour, and notice this detail on the skirt, the lace trim or whatever.” All of those thigs and really selling it to you as well you know. “Suitable for any holiday …” They would just have a whole story about you outfit which was quite nice actually because it gave you something to work with, you know?
42 minutes
Simon: Ok.
Lisa: If she’s talking about the jacket, you take off the jacket and put it back on and you know if it’s got a nice fastening you can do up the fastening, show them and undo it again and you know do a bit of a shimmy and then she talks about the bag and you can you know, swing it about, show (laughs) it’s nice, you’ve got something to work with, it was a collaboration. So, there was someone at the front doing that.
Simon: I’d never really thought about what you were describing before that idea of pausing in front of people. It’s not just a gallop from beginning to end, it’s … but as you say that sort of played to your theatrical ….
Lisa: Yeah (laughs).
Simon: Particularly having someone telling you what … saying out over the airwaves, here’s some good bits to look at.
Lisa: Yeah, exactly. It helps. It was a lot of fun.
Simon: So, after two, you then sort of took off from the Island did you?
Lisa: I think so, yeah. I then moved to London. I auditioned for Drama Schools and I got through to the second round of Rose Bruford and the second round of RADA, but didn’t get any further, and there was some other ones that I’d applied to as well but I wasn’t successful in the first year which was quite normal to then have to go back another year and audition again, because they preferred actors to have a little bit of life experience before they did their training.
Simon: Oh right.
Lisa: So then I applied to St Martins in the last minute (laughs) because that’s what I was second best good at, Art, so I ended up going to Saint Martins but I didn’t last long because my heart wasn’t really in it and I didn’t know what I wanted to do and I though if anything I wanted to do fashion, and all the girls that were doing fashion had been gearing up for fashion their whole life and they had sketch books you know from years of knowing that they were going to apply to Saint Martins to do fashion, so I’ve still got those friends who were in fashion at Saint Martins but I didn’t do it. I didn’t complete the course and I left.
44 minutes 17 seconds
Simon: Was Fashion the course you were doing was it?
Lisa: No, it was an Art Foundation so you got a taster of every subject and then that was your feeder course on to a Degree. But I just wasn’t passionate about anything enough to … and I thought well I’m just wasting everyone’s time here ‘cos everyone you know had worked really hard to get into Saint Martins and I just felt like I don’t belong, this isn’t for me. So, I left and went into the world of work actually. I started working and then it wasn’t until I was 23, that I auditioned to go to … it wasn’t a Drama School, it was a Performing Arts College where I did my Degree in Acting and Dance. And that’s when I went and did my training.
Simon: And how much of the sort of calling it back to the Elizabeth Pack stuff? Was that helpful that early experience? It’s being in public I guess and …
Lisa: Definitely, it’s all life skills isn’t it and I think putting yourself under that pressure of … I mean we used to do school productions, but those were well rehearsed, they were in front of your mum, you know where as this was a professional gig that I had to do for a client, so that was really good experience of just having to be on point. Yeah, thrown in the deep end and survive, swim (laughs). Don’t think.
Simon: I guess it’s a little bit like … now what do they call that? I’ve gone blank. Comedians where they are given a … you know, talk about this. You listening to her describing what was you were wearing. You were saying it’s a two-way relationship that is not pre-planned, it’s reacting to the moment.
46 minutes 18 seconds
Lisa: Yes. So, you had to be creative and on the spot and just really confident and comfortable and just exuding something interesting that people want to watch.
Simon: How do you convey being comfortable?
Lisa: Um. That’s a question isn’t it? How do you convey it? Start by breathing slowly (laughs) I would say, suck your tummy in, stand up tall, pull your shoulders back, lift your chin. That will give you a bit of natural confidence, and then relax your face, don’t clench your jaw, you know just take some deep breaths and then go, go with your flow, and that’s I think how you look comfortable and confident at the same time.
Simon: Great tips. (laughs). So, just generally more about the Elizabeth Pack shop, did you shop in there or do you remember anything about it beyond the modelling side?
Lisa: No, I think it was more aimed at older women than my age group. I don’t think it was the kind of place that my age group shopped in. It was also kind of a scary environment ‘cos it was very proper and you know, women would be in there having … kind of being waited on you know, like with their handbag on the side, they’d be seated and they’d have a cup of tea and they’d be looked after like that. You know, as a teenager, that’s not how you shop (laughs). You didn’t go in and be like, “Darling, nice to see you.” “Oh, thank you, take my handbag, I’ll have a tea, yes, now what have you got in this season?” You know it’s not … that’s not the way that we shop. I mean it’s a wonderful way to shop but it was way out of my price range (laughs) so yeah, no I didn’t shop in there. It was an aspirational shop.
Simon: So, it had a sort of aura around it.
Lisa: Oh yes. And the heavy doors you have to push open to get in. You know it’s like a …
Simon: I hadn’t thought about that. Noone’s mentioned the doors but that’s a good point. It does put you in a mind state.
Lisa: Yeah.
Simon: Yeah, interesting.
Lisa: The door wasn’t cranked open so you could just walk in. Like you had to go in, you know?
Simon: Right, yeah. Step over the threshold.
Lisa: Yeah. It wasn’t open to all. It had an exclusive feel about it.
Simon: Great. Well, look what have I not asked you about that I should have asked you about?
Lisa: Oh goodness, I don’t know (laughs). I have no idea. I wish I could remember more. I feel like there was a … why do I feel like there was a Magazine or a Catalogue that she used to produce?
Simon: I’ve not heard about that, ok.
Lisa: I don’t know if I’ve made that up though so check your sources (laughs). I feel like there was something, some kind of material that she used to give out.
Simon: We’ll look into that.
Lisa: I can’t think what that was .
Simon: Ok, brilliant Well, thank you for your time.
Lisa: Thank you for having me.
Simon: Much appreciated.
Interview ends.
49 minutes 42 seconds
